DANO, Founder of eCenter Management

Scaling Up Services - 009 - DANO

DANO, Founder of eCenter Management

Dano has spent over 9 years working as a business trainer and on-demand consultant for business owners and CEO’s. He started eCenter Management in 2013 and quickly built a team of talented sales and business professionals that take on function rather than serve as advice givers for companies in the B2B community. Weekly he approves all strategic action plans for client sales teams and is the spokesperson for the firm. 

Dano's style is highly engaging and he is well known for his practice of Scientific Selling, training with gamification, and being a rare “keynote trainer” focused on helping teams and audience practice and acquire skills, rather than talking about them.



[00:00:01] You're listening to scaling of services where we speak with entrepreneurs authors business experts and thought leaders to give you the knowledge and insights you need to scale your service based business faster and easier. And now here is your host Business Coach Bruce Eckfeldt.

[00:00:22] Welcome everyone. This is the scaling up services podcast . I'm your host today.

[00:00:27] We're here with Dano and Daniel when I met a while ago at a session from here in New York on awarding cultural awards to companies and we started chatting and I learned a little bit more about a way to do what he does. I've been fascinated all Adeno tell a story about how you got into things but Diana was a master of sales and sales management and I'm really excited to have this conversation Denno. Welcome to the program.

[00:00:51] Jeff pleasure to be here. So don't why don't we start just that just how you kind of got to end all this I know you've got an interesting story.

[00:00:58] And then we can talk a little bit about what you do and how you help companies with sales specifically. But Phyllis and Phyllis I'm on the box right.

[00:01:06] I think I think you know anytime you can understand someone's history in origin it's important and obviously in you know for me it started off in really wanting to learn and having that genuine curiosity to learn. I was at a very young age 23 24 I was blessed to work with some of the heads of the company that was very popular you know 90s early 2000 the rich that corporation was you know just was brought up as a very green entrepreneur in consulting services help build a business from 15 global consultants to 70 and eventually was one of their three master facilitators as well as in charge of building up their educational program to bring on other consultants and for anyone who's gone to a huge program with the Tony Robin or anything big their promoters where were our promoters so it was a really interesting time for me in getting to look at you know really celebrity like trainers celebrity speakers and so forth. But at the end of the day we'd be in front of thousands of people and my last gig it was about five hundred people 500 600 people.

[00:02:19] And I remember I remember after day two everybody was crying in the room that people would think we'd change their life when really their life was changed for two days. We got to keep this thing going. So I just you know I'm I'm I think I'm fit and naturally fit to be in sales and sales management because of my background in sports and played baseball my entire life. I'd get drafted out of college and didn't that play a little bit of semi pro bowl but didn't. One thing I loved about college sports and just sports at a high level is there's a score at the end of the game on the scoreboard and there's usually reasons and statistics and how we got to that conclusion. Yeah it's a it's a natural progression for me fit for me to be in sales and sales management and you know that really I think I'm like Silicon Valley meets Glengarry Glen Ross you know best of them the phones. But I'm a nerd.

[00:03:13] I love it. I love it and I think your point. That's the connection to sports and that's it's about performance management right now. How do you break down a fairly fluid art into something a series of stats that you can measure to look at performance and know if I change certain things I'm going to get different outcomes and understand that kind of management that analysis I think is great and I think you know sales is hard enough I think selling services like compound the whole thing there not only are the actual sales per car. Yeah I like the sales process it's hard about. But then when you're selling services which are now kind of very abstract and intangible it becomes even harder. So so you're coming out of this space.

[00:03:54] So there's background in sports in baseball and you know doing the work on a large scale event program training everything. Tell me about kind of what you're doing now and how that kind of got to got to today.

[00:04:08] Simple you don't want to kill myself because then I can't negotiate with people so managing partner of a company called center management and very simple. We work with CEOs in the SMB middle market three to 13 million in sales revenue is what these companies tend to have. And we have one job as a function of a business not consulting it a function of a business called sales manager. And our job is to build the sales team that meets and exceeds core Yeah yeah.

[00:04:37] And I just really kind of make sure it's clear for people here. And this is what I love about you and what you do.

[00:04:43] It's really taking over I think it's one of the hardest things in the world is hard to sell but to manage salespeople inside of an organization and how do I manage sales people sales process to deliver to Target to my forecast. It is hard but that is what you do. You actually come in and work with management to put in place the process.

[00:05:03] The targets themselves compensation scheme find people manage people. Tell us a little bit about like what a week or what a month looks like for a client engagement like how do you actually engage with the clients.

[00:05:14] Yeah I mean it all starts with what. You know I would say the signs of building a sales team starts with premise in their belief like what do you believe. I'm not building anything unless you believe that it could be built. So you know it always starts with the owner's belief and then us believing in them. Do we think the marketplace is there are there are some things that I know the margin. I know the marketplace really well I'm not that element. So it always starts with what's the belief of the owner energy of the owner and then it goes down quite honestly to the nerd side of what we do. We've got to do a revenue forecast and a budget. And first thing you're trying to do is just afford to have a sales team you know two people plus some digital marketing to do something that drives the lead prospect flow interchangeable words for a lot of people but that's the starting point. But at the end of the day our day to day is with the sales professional we call them the Reps. Are professionals after they get done with training so you know in simple form it's kind of the one two three four we build the revenue forecasts.

[00:06:14] Then we recruit interview and hire and we train the staff. Then we hold them highly accountable and the last piece that they think people mess and in really by flash forward is my guest in the next three to four years as we build unbelievable relationships we have. We do that thing called them like our sales reps. They just don't want to go there. And I think in any particular part of an operation and you nailed it so hard sales are so hard. The last thing that they need is someone that's only hard now. You can't just bring the fire in. I mean we yell We are not happy with people all the time. But there's got to be some joy there's got to be some relationship and that we dig deep we dig deep into what personally motivates them but also their family because you know you want ultimate motivator you should send someone significant other their accountability that be real crazy stuff and we get to that level as insignificant others of our reps. We wavefront girl like we know we dine and wine and dine them and they're my customers.

[00:07:18] I go to an I've always had this philosophy of we have to bring love back to business right. Like we have to figure out a way.

[00:07:24] I mean look we are people and people are engaged by relationships with other people and if we can figure out a way to bring kind of you know love empathy respect care for us as people in the workplace you know you're not going to have that connection you are going to have that drop money only go so far. You can only pay people so much and at some point another dollar is not going to get any performance. But if you can figure out how to get people emotionally personally you know connected to the organization and the purpose you will have unlimited potential.

[00:07:53] Yeah I think that. We'll talk more about that. What is sales management in a second but I think that that's part of the function and companies that we work with 330 million. If I'm wearing a hat today it's very professionally dressed up for camouflage just so you know just watching this No they can't hide from me. Exactly. You're in the bushes. You're still there. My stand point to this is is with relationships is look I have at the end of the day we can make lots of money.

[00:08:21] We can do a lot a lot of things but very few things will come without managing relationships.

[00:08:27] That's really key. So talk to me about sales management because I think a lot of people don't. They may throw out the word but they don't really understand what does that mean as as a discipline as a function as a capability. Talk to me about what does it mean to be a sales manager to manage the sales process.

[00:08:44] So I always you know whenever asked a question you if you look at the opposite. Sometimes there are some geniuses of what is sales management not. Yeah well start with then because I think they're common errors regardless of whether being right or wrong let's just talk about some scientific errors. Not just my truths.

[00:09:02] And so the first thing that it's not it's not your best salesperson managing a group of people and titling their manager V.P. of sales whatever it may be because they were the best at selling. In fact what we believe from a standpoint this is my shirt is that you just ruined your whole opportunity value of that person. From a revenue generator so you know it's not the best person in sales to meet you just use the word that we use. What's the function of Zaltman. The function of sales management is to create goals and plans and strategies and leverage tactics to get there to get a sales team to meet and exceed quotas.

[00:09:40] And from that the things that we manage on a daily and a weekly basis are three things number one numbers. I literally just at one of our clients because I couldn't get them something. 1 3 on a 4 o'clock report out. What's the debt literally daily report of everything entered into the sales force. As you skip a day day leads to a week. So I'm just with this new client I'm just playing with their psychosis right now. Right now they know they're wrong. The SEAL team knows they're wrong and what the leadership is doing is doing as you well know. This happens from a consulting side of things as they are justifying the people they hire which is fine with me.

[00:10:20] Hey if you want to be did you or your own employees have at it. I'm not going to exist for a long time. Fire me based on their performance that I never had a chance at.

[00:10:32] So that's why we've been we tend to build. This one we're building and taking over a team. But we managing the daily numbered life and weekly numbers and monthly numbers and annual numbers while Numbers Never Lie.

[00:10:43] And people sometimes do they often want to if there's no dot dot dot since there's no features I can go dot dot numbers number like people sometimes do.

[00:10:54] So we manage the numbers. The second thing that we're managing is how did you get to those number of the activity. Now tell me your truths against these banks right now I can tell you. We'll get into tactical information about how we can move these more. And I think the piece that I'm really proud of is that with great technology famille what we do I think sales management job. Now that technology's involved CRM with simple tactics and leveraging the CRM user CRM is only a few things that you got to do really properly your real job is just kicking the ball further down the court to close won or close loss in those losses and have a reason why clear reasonable.

[00:11:34] But I think what happens in sales management so you know what it's not is what you do yesterday and change you what I said yesterday. Right. Or looking over someone shoulder we have this right now I think we say looking over someone's shoulder going on every appointment that you can with your sales team is not micromanagement that is stupid. Look I'm always going to be different. If you were my manager whatever you want to call me I'm always going to act different with you around. Yeah. You know we treat certified people so again you get a trained recruit the top talent. And based on the budget and be honest about what you can afford you know treat it like a sports team. You've got to grow your own talent you get a salary cap. Yeah I'm a big fan of it. Right. So it's again reflection of sports I've got a higher properly.

[00:12:16] And inside of that interview you've got to train people and you got to hold people accountable. My quota I believe a great sales manager and a great function more like my quota is the same. One of the big problems that I have right now is when you give a sales a sales manager quota. I don't care who they are specially like 80 percent which is most people's now their quota comes first. They always always sell before they manage. And I think you really kill the profession of sales management you do that which is great. That gives me more business. I hope that answered There's so much dynamic. But I think again those are some nuggets of the function of salesmen were the cog better set storyline way to say this CEO yells at me to get the sales going. I yell it because people understand when I say a yell at sales reps motivate them teach and inspire them to sell. Now the sales reps yell at me for more money and hide. Don't get to yell at them I get to address my concern.

[00:13:16] Yeah. Well I think you had a couple of things there that I think are really important.

[00:13:20] I think a lot of people kind of get wrong or at least I see a lot in working with companies that are looking to grow in scale and they're looking to scale up the sales team or at least the sales results and they take that they're their best salesperson they put them in that management position or at least they put them into. You're in charge of sales. Go figure this out and you know to your point not only not only does it typically lead to bad sales management but you've also now lost your sales force right.

[00:13:47] So a double like you're getting hit in both is not just 120 speed or sell yourself twice. Look I would say this like you really look at someone. I love the word probe my profession and I just usually I Google were before I get on anything when they start to love the work. I look up the definition. Look at the end of the day what I really like about prose specifically athletes or even right now. The Silicon Valley world you play and you dabble with some really cool people but these people who are in tech they do things with purpose. No. There's no such thing as the wrong code it's one that doesn't work. So the same thing exists in sales of things that don't work and the one thing that does not work when you put someone into sales where you've got a lead teach and inspire. I go what what experience or school do they go to. They did all three of those because my school didn't do that. It was hard enough getting to be a good leader. Most people teach. Most people don't even know how people learn. Let alone to teach you how to go to a teacher if you don't know how people learn visual audio kinesthetic when you have a chance you know. And then last but not least is you've got to inspire a group that everyone thinks is money motivated.

[00:14:57] Yeah. Well. So how. Oh so a couple questions so one maybe we'll start there. So talk about motivation.

[00:15:03] I think that's a hard one for most people and I think typically there's this kind of idea.

[00:15:07] Well I just need to pay them more or I need you know I need to put more more of their calm as performance comp I need to you know it's going to be some percentage of either revenue or gross profit or something.

[00:15:21] Talk to me about how you motivation.

[00:15:23] So I think that you've got to cover things for people when you've got a cover you know like the Mathlouthi. There's nothing scientific about this thing and it's just following what everybody already research you've got to be able to cover people's personal well-being you've got to understand their family justification.

[00:15:38] You've got to understand their skill sets because people aren't worth as much as they think because you got to make it off to a budget that you know I'm in charge of the budget my line is I owe you my you owe me myself and I owe you X in sales and GP.

[00:15:53] So the first thing you got to look at in terms of motivation is what gets people what brings people just a baseline of peace. And I think that like you know again goes back to what not to do what not to hire someone who is broke and has built to the anything. And look as much as I want to take care of people that's tough because there's no peace there.

[00:16:15] Once you got it once you understand someone's peace at home and how they know how they're how they leverage money to some extent a lot of people are going to say this you've got to dig in and dig but be compliant with the things you can't do anymore. I can't even ask someone how much money they made last year and check their debt. Right now someone could say I made five billion dollars and I can't go look at it too. This is fascinating. It's just you got to be better at your job.

[00:16:42] I've got to I actually got a work permit. What at that point. It's all right I'm in silver. All right. So I think from a motivational standpoint number one bring what's peace right what is peace. Number two is a little secret. Since this is the show. Exactly. There is not one manager that we have met in another organization doing marketing or selling anyone with Khodor. We have never seen it with every single one of our budgets that we give an owner and and a quarter for a sales rep. We have a thing called activity quota of. So I'm going to explain this in words. But by all means I'm going to have your audience if they're really listening to this above the hell out of you. I'll send the raw data. You know I'm very much the guy that gives my best advice. Absolutely upfront because most people just don't they don't go into what you do is let's say our average salary base for a one to three year experience person B2B sales is about sixty two thousand dollars. So that's the base. What we do is we take 12000 of that dollars out of the base and we say every single month you can earn one thousand dollars of the space by doing that thing called your job. Because what owners tend to do especially the owner of that well where's all the hats and is trying to do sales management operations you know these people and they try to only use the only two things that they know motivates people which is sticks and carrots. Hey if you don't do your job you're fired. And that last time I checked it takes zero talent to fire and number two. Here's what we're going to do. We're going to run a sales contest and pay you more money to do the job that I already told you to do not right you more to the drama I'm already being there.

[00:18:33] Yes.

[00:18:33] So at the end of the day you have sticks and carrots. We just said look we got a problem here. If the only two motivators from a base compensation not above and beyond when we start talking about lifestyle motor what I really think motivates people just base. Man we got a problem here. We pull out a thousand dollars and we PKP eyes again. Dial's made initial first appointment pipeline for Mormons.

[00:18:56] And look if you don't get paid. You know I used to rip a 100 dollar bill on stage and go it's throw away money and you know do this and then CEOs are getting really mad at me. But the truth is it's throwing away money. That's what I told the sales professional that manage. I don't get it. You don't get it. The owner doesn't get nothing from it's throwing away money. So we force people they've got to play and then we'll pay them that little bit of the base compensation pool.

[00:19:20] What do you pick. Is it one. Is it one number or is a suite of numbers and you've got to hit the Swede to get the money.

[00:19:26] So everybody ask Is that an all or nothing that they want. So the answer is it depends. Yeah right. Depends on how they're performing a lot of time. Look I don't want to take the money and want to be clear. If you hit your dial but you missed your initial held appointments which is the common KPI in a B2B environment which I dominate.

[00:19:44] Right. So we try to say say I've brought hauberk rating every month and here's the cool for every month. I could change the KPI based on what the company needs.

[00:19:51] Yeah I think that's key and I hope listeners are taking this away which is you have to look at where your current performance is and what is that thing that you're trying to change or implement at the time.

[00:20:01] Yeah it's it's like people creating rules like be on time by being early when everybody is on time and everybody's early like you don't need that rules. I totally get that what you're saying I give you the last piece of you know the first pieces bring second pieces within that piece. Got to have some kind of activity that drives some type of numbers for the company right away within their base. The last one is this is seven years. I stopped about two years ago partly because I was done playing with people's goals for seven years ran free gold Worksop for God like you and I who would like that kind of thing. And I would change. I do a little bit of robbing a little bit of this and I mean still everybody's best thing and most of it if we really study deep it was probably Napoleon Hills. And so I would I would get to this one and a lot of people have this. You know when you're trying to define most definite purpose most definite action than that. The one thing even using some tagline to people. I said if you want ten million dollars cash no tax free what would you do with it. And for seven years in this order dissecting my gold workshop average around 50 to 70 people.

[00:21:09] You know you're out. So you drink 350 people every year. I would go around and this park and I can I'd get a spreadsheet out and I'd put it up on screen because I want people to see how crazy we are. Every year we dissect the top five things that it put five because people people knew that I already knew that three people who read the goal works. I called them I repeat offenders coming back like they're going to you know what to do so but I don't get it because I would do the same thing. So here's the three things seven years of data. In this order that most people in the room said that they would do with 10 million dollar travel spend time with their family and give back in that order. I was fascinated the time with family was the first track. So I have my own things of why travel why I'm with them. Why give back give back. It's totally intuitive totally makes sense to them. Time with family makes sense to me. The travel was unique to me. I just think people really want to see what new.

[00:22:09] Yeah well I think it's autonomy is the idea that I can I can choose to go do something. And it's freedom essentially it's the freedom to go do things I want to do I'm sure if you went destinations of people would be like I'm going to go to Miami or I'm going to go to Alaska or I'm like that.

[00:22:24] It's going to be easily reversed but I get to go do something. We have some good fights about team travel with that kind of stuff. So here's the motivation. Tricked. Number three is know that up front. Why. Like we're the only animal in the world that can predict potential futures. Why are you not taking this data. There's only six people were. What book are you reading.

[00:22:44] There is no book in the world that says if you or people want more money in the book set thinking grow rich you can say start a business then they sell things that think you know think about this. So I just say think about what the right thing. I'm giving you the everything that people said they would do with money. And you give them those. And I think the tech companies know that it was like stealing from other industries or sciences companies. What what should you do if you're a small company. I don't know what the big number they actually look at them. If you're a big company what should you do. What the small people do with their business like actually care about their people. So it's it's this trade of yin and yang in this part right here. Motivation. I just really think that people want to travel spend time with family get back.

[00:23:28] And so rather than try to compensate for that I compensate to where I think people have an excitement but kind of like a super excitement. And then when they start to go if I did that that's crazy. And I've got people who are as I did I do this and I'm crazy now and they're the hardest to remotivate because I'm telling them like when we're going to go lower. This guy started to make more money than everybody I know including me like no there's industries that just can do that in a SAS reoccurring revenue product. You could really get some good copper people. So I think that one of the things we've done when you sign up with us as an owner in our agreement with you. It says to be determined but we have a travel bonus goal nice and so every year my team hits a certain level of sales. I just talked to the owner of the Naegele look if you don't give me 2 percent of this overall stuff like you really don't like me that's all I'm doing is going to build culture I'm giving it somebody because people don't tell people hey you should use your bonus. Like wait a minute you're telling me how to use my Bovis. So I've got to help them travel I've got a helping them time with them at my in my organization and we do a family dinner with them. Bad about it for this year. And we do family dinners. Now everybody's invited like old school like and I want to bring it back I want to bring back potluck dinners because I think that even weirder. So you got to spend time with family and then I think look everybody is doing that giveback thing in weird ways. I think that we're trying to find love whether it's Habitat for Humanity. I want to find the one that helped excite the entire staff that I really like you said because I work with the staff to say here's what I want to do. Yeah.

[00:25:06] Well I think if you look at it from a culture point of view people are certainly going to remember or emotionally connect with you know the travel with the time they have of their family with the way in which they did back then they remember getting a child into the they don't even get checked.

[00:25:22] It just wasn't that her bank account now so it's available. Yeah exactly. It's so ephemeral. I think it's I think it's a really important point and it's something we do a lot. I mean we do it I'll size sales rooms. Anyone in the organization we look at compensation and motivation.

[00:25:36] You know you've got to look above and beyond the actual dollars. And certainly as you get to the higher numbers the incremental dollars are not actually that motivating.

[00:25:45] They can turn people off if everything becomes purely fine Britney learned something on the podcast that I'm recording with. I think you nailed it right. What's the what's the experience given what you think is motivating them. You think money is motivating and you do direct deposit through the bank. There is no experience. Exactly. Let you let someone filmed themselves at home praying to God check it refreshing the bank account. I got it. I'm always curious to be like you know I think of the stooge. We're not stupid Scrooge. I always wonder what people say about their me around the dinner table. Right. And I think that that's something that we think as managers and leaders and sail that end of the day there's no people or not thanking me.

[00:26:32] I just don't believe that I get some great testimony other than my people all of me and I love them. But I think what you just nailed the experience that people are having that motivation.

[00:26:42] You know so I know one of the things you end up doing quite a bit is finding salespeople. How do you go about doing that. Do you have any rules and you're a stick strategies when you're looking to build a sales team. What do you look for. How much of it is you know general and how much of it is kind of depends on the company and what what you're selling are the nature of the company you're selling for.

[00:27:04] Yeah I mean it depends. Right. So I think of that any time we are building a sales team you know if you're listening to this you are.

[00:27:11] I really think you've got to have the positions first and understand what you're trying to accomplish if you need to perform right away and you have the budget that I would start to think about and I'll use the word stealing or attracting top talent. I mean you can think about those things. You know there's egos and I think a positive ego for that and just professional have to have some ego to them think they've got an attitude of or I'll use the word or use the word they've got to have some certainty to them. My triumphs of success. I think that's the thing though. The other thing is if you're looking if you have the time at the end of the day if you have the time and you have the budget build from the ground and really build your own and nurture your own self you can take people from one to two years experience or no experience at all and get them to six figures and in sales and sales compensation and you know getting people to six figures in Manhattan two hundred thousand defeat puasa. There's just not a lot of jobs like that. So people do a place of peace and then what they what gets them excited and get them out of bed you're going to do some really good damage from a hire from a hiring perspective.

[00:28:19] I think if you if you take any nuggets from you on interviewing someone had the positions and know your framework from a budget standpoint to is in your interviewing process these are sales professionals you're looking for. And really this goes to one now because I know a lot of people stole this out of our interviewing process. You got to test people you know sales skill sets.

[00:28:40] I ask CEOs this as sales representatives this and I said reps on purpose that aren't even very few people just the pros in my opinion even know what a sales skills that is people's passion energy and like look like it that the selling are the three core core Mealing Karelian means heart Bohart of a skill set for a sales person is you've got to be number one is that our number one skill that is quality questionnaire. Yeah. Number two is professional storytelling. And number three is abjection handling a lot of that horror.

[00:29:13] And so you've got your interviews have to have to talk about those things will more importantly test that. Yeah. How do you test someone's a quality question asker all the soft skills. I don't we don't discount them we're always looking at it. Or do we think this person's Arnis body will and over and we have ways to do that. You have a process on everything so it's skill set testing we have a grading scale for that on soft skills we have a grading for that people having great soft skills look thoughtful. If the person says hey is it alright if I sit here and the person opens the door the person said Do you mind if I take notes there's a lot of things my point to this is if you're going to build a team of professionals you're interviewing process has to be professional. So it's all over LinkedIn the stuff that we wrote about I think you're going to get post. We have it we have the article. There's so many like it's just we have one that's B2B sales from how to hire them. And you know hundreds of sales pros later I think they are qualified now.

[00:30:16] I hope so you know and I think anybody I mean it's all great. I think the two pieces that really resonate for me you've got to have the positions like you can't go you can't start the hiring process until you know what you really want. Which means you have to have a sales strategy you need to know what your skills your ideal sales team is going to look like so you can fill those right role right right slots and then have a process because you're right. I mean I think that I mean a it's tough to interview with anyone but it's particularly tough to interview salespeople because they are often quite good.

[00:30:43] It's like you brought with it. Let me give you the combat and then I'm going to give you number probably the one that nobody wants to talk about how we end the interviews because this one's going to let me give you some tactic on what you just said. Said You're nailing it right. So if they're good sales people they should sell themselves. Here's how our interview process starts at least the first in person after they get by the screen when they walk in. I literally lean lean back. Sometimes I'll dress it up and dress just to dress casually for this interview. Right so I'm wearing a suit with slippers and a Weiskopf slippers look popular. So I called Hawaii Tennessee. So the reason being is I start by saying that you've got to set the context for every interview this interview is going to last 30 minutes. The reason that you're here is because we just want to get to know us at a more personal level. It's going to be super relaxing. Hopefully the most casual will be professional interview process you've ever been through. The reason that it's so casual is because at the end of the day we know you can sell Mr. salesperson and we really want to. We want to really buy the person that you're not selling but who you truly are.

[00:31:52] Know they are in my they are Scroope from that moment. Because now the. Now you've got to think of what's happening here is your plan head right.

[00:32:02] Well look I tell them that I'm telling what people really should be saying. This guy came in like oh I'm going to love this guy.

[00:32:09] Look you're not really going to blow me away i'm really I'll be blown away if you're really I could dig like I want to know what I don't know. I saw them on the resume. I could ask the question.

[00:32:20] So it's really you got to set the context for an interview I think you nailed it.

[00:32:24] Here's the ears the last interview by or by the way I think of six interviews with you given that people asked if you can combine it you can combine a lot of different ones that the last interview is I'm going to mess this word out. But I believe it's repatriation repudiation to talk someone out of it. Yeah I always give the visual for those who are young enough to follow culture MNM in the movie 8 Mile laugh track with not much more to say. Right. So we tell people who we truly are. I've mentioned yeah. I'm not going to lie I yell. I also love people. Our core as well. So I'm the Aigner. I do not put it like that immediately allying it's like there's no three strikes you're out. No. You lie about where you were and what you were doing we have we don't have a problem. You have a situation. I don't know. So I think we're really talking people out of the John so under duress it is so underused. And the other side is I see this and you know I've said this to thousands of people who are doing this stuff. The reason people don't they even when they know to do it is because they're afraid of losing. And at the end of the day I go if you're afraid of your people before you even higher up you got a problem you know and so you know I remember the first time that it really hurt me that I talked and went out. I came back right up the road here in Long Island right up the road.

[00:34:00] I come back from a restaurant I just spent like 60 bucks the day before on this guy once.

[00:34:06] Right. And that because I thought this guy was a shoe in. So I get an e-mail because it never comes to the point that there was never nobody ever called. Always an e-mail. The e-mail comes through I send it to one of our partners here and I go see what you think. And like I'm like what he's going to say it's all right. Like I think he's going to be nice. You know we like radical candor rules here. So I should saw this coming. He's like great job. Yes. You're the one who's teaching this thing called top people at work. You did your job. And when you really look at it that's the truth. We don't know how much money really saved the company. No not that's it. Bruce is good at running an operating businesses and I'm pretty sure he has not figured out exactly how to calculate me back. Someone quitting and the compensation of educating them with a full time employment employee that could be doing something.

[00:35:07] Yeah exactly.

[00:35:08] Yeah that opportunity loss is incalculable loss and you know my last piece of how we hire is like we are at the very end. We are brutally honest and we try to find people.

[00:35:20] No no. And I think that's smart and I think that it's a really tough pill to swallow. I think for just about every professional. But look yeah if you want to build a really strong long term team and it's good for any team but typically Celsi and you know you got they have to sell themselves into the process if they're not selling you to get into that.

[00:35:41] It's it's really you're going good manager right now during this call going on what we call them you know the wining and dining networking we go see how people do in social settings. You have the best guy. He's great at selling you all the way through the process and then you get to dinner and he it's the worst conversation ever. He can not spark conversation notes no gift of gab or reward. So you find out very quickly and in some B2B environments where you're wining and dining that's at the top the top but we have it right now. I think the owners are going to come back. I think the guys that the professional that we're looking at is going to do well are going to come back and go sign him up and I have to go maybe. Yeah yeah but that's the question my own business practice. Maybe maybe I will lose compensation of reproving because if the guy doesn't doesn't want to I don't want the security person right it's a trade off.

[00:36:36] Then this is great we're out of time here but we've covered a lot of great stuff. I really appreciate it.

[00:36:43] How if people are more interested around you and your business and how you work with companies around sales management. What's the best way to get a hold of you and how can they find out more information.

[00:36:52] Look I think the best thing you know super inspired by you and what people are doing around digital marketing. Again my Glengarry Glen Ross is I don't need any leads. But I do and so what I'll say is just check us out. Check me out on LinkedIn. Connect with me. Slowly slowly growing the community.

[00:37:11] John Danno think goes by my full name John Chaouki Denno if you call me John or Kiyoaki I will my name as I have learned Dommett sharing data and that and the last is like old school email me or call me.

[00:37:28] Those things you can find online as well. But you know I think that you know Connec if you connect with me and try to get me on LinkedIn or immediately take you off line onto email and phone call I think at the end of the day sales are our unique company and so you might add value all day long and it's not a waste of time.

[00:37:47] The all taking from everybody was not like there's a secret they sure all that contact information is in the show notes here.

[00:37:54] And I would encourage everyone that is thinking about sales thinking about sales management whether they have already done it or are they thinking about doing it. Can I kabana when you're right to say I'm sure he'd love to chat with you. This has been a pleasure. Thank you so much and I look forward to getting together soon and we can keep this conversation going.

[00:38:13] Cheers. Thanks. Cheers.

[00:38:16] Ok good. Good episode. Appreciate the notes.

[00:38:22] It's probably going to be soon and probably for six weeks. I'll send you.

[00:38:27] I'll let you know beforehand you can only get information sets but otherwise. That's right. Thank you my friend. All right take care.

[00:38:38] You've been listening to scaling up services with Business Coach Bruce Eckfeldt to find a full is the podcast episodes. Download the tools of worksheets and access other great content. This is the Web site at scaling up services dot com. And don't forget to sign up for the free newsletter healing of services dot com slash newsletter.