Edward Reynolds, Founder and CEO of Union Square Consulting

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Edward Reynolds, Founder and CEO of Union Square Consulting

Eddie Reynolds is the Founder and CEO of Union Square Consulting. He has advised over 300 organizations, from venture-backed technology companies to established investment banks, private equity, and commercial real estate firms on ways to scale sales and marketing and leverage cutting-edge technology to make each of their team members more efficient and effective. He also works with senior executives at these firms to improve their visibility into the business, with real-time analytics, so they can make better strategic decisions and respond faster to changes in their market as well as changes in their operational effectiveness.



[00:00:01] You're listening to Scaling Up Services where we speak with entrepreneurs authors business experts and thought leaders to give you the knowledge and insights you need to scale your service based business faster and easier. And now here is your host Business Coach Bruce Eckfeldt.

[00:00:21] Welcome everyone this is Scaling Up Services. I'm Bruce Eckfeldt. I'm your host and today our guest is Eddie Reynolds who is founder and CEO of Union Square consulting.

[00:00:31] We're going to talk to him a little bit about sales strategy sales force development sales force management and just generally how companies can get better about taking the leaves they have closing leads using technology using strategies. So Eddie welcome to the program. Thanks for having me Bruce. So let's start. I would like to have guests start a little bit about their background. Before we kind of dig in to Union Square and what you're doing there. How did you get into this. What would your professional background tell us a little bit of the story.

[00:00:57] Yeah. So my background is probably not the typical background you would find with somebody running a technical open in banking and then worked in private equity. But. I spent my. Career in client facing roles. And so it was really important for me to think about how am I building relationships with people I'm working with and how am I managing that information so that I can be the best that I can be and along the way I discovered Salesforce started drinking the Kool-Aid ended up working at the company for three years and then that's the beginning of the story. I guess the end of it is that I spent a lot of time at Salesforce working with companies across many different industries and sending those clients to various companies that would help implement Salesforce once they bought once they bought Salesforce. And I saw a lot of things that worked and a lot of things that didn't and I left salesforce to start this company and wanted to take a little bit of a different approach to the market.

[00:01:43] So and and this is great because I know I've heard all the stories about implementing Salesforce the great ones the not so great ones. You know you've been there on the salesforce side and really sort of seen you know companies that have adopted technology and adopted the whole kind of salesforce strategy. What are some of the things that you kind of noticed or takeaways that that you had seeing lots of different companies implement Salesforce. What General did you see that kind of worked or didn't work in terms of the approaches the strategies or the implementation.

[00:02:11] Well I think the big thing that stuck out for me is you know there were certainly implementation partners that were good and ones that weren't. But regardless of the implementation partner I think the success or failure hinged so much upon the buy in from the executive leadership team that we saw at the companies that I worked with know if they wanted to take a strategic approach to growing their business and think about how are we maximizing the people the processes the technology in our company to get to where we want to be next year then naturally that usually we're able to figure out how to implement Salesforce and make it a success. But so often we would see clients come in and say look we either want to delegate this so far down the chain that it's being built in a way that doesn't actually help us get to where we all ultimately want to go or we're Don even interested in doing that are we really just want to use Salesforce as a Rolodex and nothing more. Neither of those things really results in a company scaling and seeing significant improvement in their ability to build relationships of people and bring in more business.

[00:03:08] And I think that that kind of drives with most of what I've seen to as I said buying Salesforce is not a strategy. Salesforce is a tool that helps you make your strategy more implementable or more efficient and helps you accelerate the process. But it in itself is not a strategy. And you know certainly the Rolodex thing I've seen happen lots and lots of times like you people just dump all the contacts in there but they don't actually do anything with it in terms of developing a sales process or a sales funnel.

[00:03:35] So in terms of the work you're doing now with union square so you've now shifted from kind of the software license sales side of things into the actual implementation side of things. Who's a typical kind of client for you and what's a typical project look like.

[00:03:49] Yeah absolutely. So you know in having started this company just a couple of years ago we've worked with companies across various industries and we're starting to narrow our focus and get really good at a couple of key industries but we still do work with companies in very different spaces. Our focus tends to be on companies that want to optimize sales and marketing. Now that may sound straightforward if you don't know a lot about salesforce but where we don't tend to do a ton of work is on customer service teams on you know Internet of Things connecting physical devices. There's lots of things that Salesforce does that isn't really in our wheelhouse where we tend to specialize is working with salespeople and marketers and helping them figure out how they can grow the business. And we tend to lean more towards working with salespeople and marketers that have a product or service that is relatively complex and expensive. And I'd be happy to go into the differences that we see between those types of companies and ones that are selling much less expensive products but they're pretty significant. And it really changes the way that they approach their entire sales and marketing strategy.

[00:04:51] What's an example of a complex expensive kind of product or service you're selling vs. one that's not. I'm just gonna give it. Give us a practical case on that.

[00:04:59] Well an extreme example would be a group of people that would not call themselves salespeople. You would have investment bankers or wealth managers right. If you start talking to them about how they're going to optimize their conversion rate from leads to opportunities you're going to lose them really quickly. Their focus is on building relationships and rightfully so because they're working with people. Have the ability to either invest money or spend money or buy things or do deals that can be in the millions tens of millions hundreds of millions or billions of dollars. And those kinds of things don't get done. If a you don't have a rock solid foundation of a relationship that's built on trust and that's trust that you're gonna get the job done. And it's also trust that you know what you're doing. And so for a lot of people they struggle to understand how can technology help in that equation. And to some extent it can't. You cannot go and take anyone off the street and plug them into that job and expect them to be successful even with the best technology in the world. But what you can do is you can empower those people to have better information and faster access to it so that when they walk into a meeting they're more empowered to make that meeting more impactful.

[00:06:07] And I like that because I know certainly for the listeners of this podcast you know we're looking at services you know that. That's the hard part. I mean it's typically not super transactional you know we don't have a widget. We don't have a thing that we're actually selling that we're handing off that has the value it is. It's about the relationship and it's about the interaction between people that is the delivery of value and it makes it very ephemeral and it makes it difficult to establish that trust and actually have that transaction happen that sales process happen. And so I think what you're talking about is usually important for this audience because I think it's it's how do you establish that trust. How do you establish that relationship so you can actually then sell in a relationship basis. So talk to me a little bit about the process because you know a product I'm buying a TV I walk into a store and going look at its features I can compare it to other TV is I got to know what price points I can optimize that I get from you know how do I compare you know these kind of intangible kind of things and how does the sales President when you look strategically at a sales process how do you and the evil or how do you help a prospect through that process of selecting and buying.

[00:07:12] Well I think that that's really the crux of what we see every day like we work with so many people in these industries where they are providing a really high touch service to their clients and they themselves have the experience of all of these consumer applications. They're getting e-mails every day. They have apps on their iPhone. They understand this automated process that's used in business to consumer types of companies and they see how effective some company like Uber is. And I think a lot of them are thinking like how can we do this in our business but can we even do anything like this because it's so radically different and not applicable. But I think that if you really break down that process when you're talking about anything that's going to be extremely high touch before you can have a client you first have to initiate and build a relationship.

[00:07:57] Now if you don't even know who that person is you're not going to get very far. Most people they're working in high touch industries know a lot of people out in the market. How long does it take you to access that information. So we see a lot of our customers that are doing something that's no more complicated than saying look there are many many databases of information about our specific industry. How do we give our people faster access to it. How do we integrate that data into a tool like Salesforce. And it doesn't have to be Salesforce obviously that's what we do and I'm a big fan of it but that's not what I'm here to talk about today. It's really about giving your people better and faster access to information so they can say Look even if I am not going to go bang out a bunch of cold calls today or slam a thousand mass you know cookie cutter emails maybe I want to invite somebody to lunch. How much time does it take me to go and find the person that I want to talk to at the company I want to talk to their name and phone number. That is building a Rolodex from there. Once they have a conversation with somebody how do I make that the most impactful conversation I possibly can have. And I think that this comes down to two things. One how much access how easy is my access to market information what's going on that is pertinent and relevant to that particular individual in that company and how much time does it take me to go dig up that information. Some of that information is out there in these external data sources and some of it is inside of the company inside of your company itself. There are so many different people in your company that may have interacted with any individual at your target company in the past. And where is that information being held if it's sitting in somebodies desk on a yellow notepad that doesn't help you out very much guess.

[00:09:37] And I like this idea that you know that the strategy here is not to replace the salesperson it's not to say okay well we can. We can create a system that does the selling. It's how do we make sort of super power enabled salespeople as you know so that we give them tools information at their fingertips so that they can be a more effective in the job that they're doing in terms of the interaction in terms of whether it's building the relationship whether it's helping consult the prospect on the purchase process.

[00:10:04] Can you give me a good example because I think conceptually it makes a lot of sense. Can you give me an example of like how how this applies.

[00:10:10] Is there like a situation you can kind of describe and how you know a good sales support system sales system like this would change the conversation from either going to lunch or having a phone call. Sort of the old way. And then a new way that is much more enhanced through the technology that we're talking about.

[00:10:28] Yeah. Absolutely. And I'll give it to you from two perspectives. Let's look at this from the perspective of the person that's trying to build relationships and get deals done. And let's also look at it from the perspective of the person actually running the company. One of the senior leaders right. And so let's say for example that you're in a scenario where you get referrals from various sources lots of businesses in lots of different industries. Work really hard to build relationships with other individuals and organizations that then refer business to them. And it's really easy to anecdotally say wow you know like Bruce sends me so many referrals I really need to double down I need to take him out to dinner again. But without the ability to track that information especially across the entire company how effective and how valuable is that relationship if we actually take a look at the data and we find out that Wow Bruce is sending us a lot of referrals but these referrals tend to take us a lot of time. Our win rate is very low on them. It turns out that once we actually win those clients over they tend to be very unhappy very difficult very costly to serve whereas this other individual or this other organization is sending us referrals that are a lot more profitable. Maybe we need to double down our efforts in building that relationship and move away from the one that actually is not as beneficial for us. And you can think about that from the perspective of you like an individual contributor in an organization. And you can also think about that from the perspective of the leader of the entire company. How do we look at what we're doing across the entire company and how do we optimize that.

[00:11:50] Well I like the separation you just gave which I think you know people may or may not sort of be thinking about when they thinking about sales which is the actual sort of sales process and the salespeople and how do I you know make sure that they're going to be successful. And then the sales management which is you know kind of one level up. How do I manage a sales organization as sales team and that kind of data is going to be hugely important to both. But I can see it being applied in lots of different ways. And the other one I like is you know the idea that you know a real professional salesperson is focused on selling they don't necessarily have all the sort of anecdotal information that they're going to need to be able to make these judgment calls about yes which referral source or which prospects are going to play best. Having the tools and having the information that actually shows them hey look this is what we look at the last six months of leads and how they convert into the clients and if those clients were successful profitable easier to deal with. Did they refer other customers in not being able to kind of qualify and give that information. So the salesperson can make better decisions on how do I spend my time and how do I spend my effort on developing more of those do I want more of those or not. That might not be a great lead source. It may look great in the beginning but in terms of the business value it may not be there. Once we get into delivery Where's another lead source that may look more difficult for some for a salesperson upfront could actually be much more value for the organization so which could be a really good investment of time not having the data means you can't make those kind of decisions.

[00:13:11] I think that's what you're getting it now and I think that that's a really big thing. I will say that we know when we work with Salesforce it's a really delicate balance between trying to serve the needs of the leaders of the organization and serving the needs of the Frontline producers. And you have to do both right. The management of an organization one of the biggest things that they want is they want real time visibility into their business. They want analytics and data. They want to understand. Are we on track to meet our goals but that only happens if you get the data into the system from the end users and those end users are only going to use that system if it provides value to them in their day. Right now there is a bit of it where you know if you as an executive are not backing the initiative you shouldn't expect people to actually use the tool and for the initiative to be a success but it can't all be stick. There needs to be some carrot as well. And so we need to build a system that actually helps people close more deals and what we find is that these end users none of them ever want to put data into the system.

[00:14:08] Right. We're all lazy we want. We want to get and not to give. That's human nature. Right. But the second that you come to somebody and say look I now have a really robust information that you can access you're about to go meet Bob for lunch. Do you want to know the entire 10 year history of Bob with our company. Every deal he's looked at every deal he's passed on every deal he's done whether or not we've run into roadblocks before with him or not. Of course you're going to want to access that information. What if we then say hey we now have newsfeeds integrated we have proprietary industry data that we're paying for that's patron into the system. And before you go to your meeting and by the way this isn't something you have to spend two hours digging up you can pull out your phone while you're in the taxi headed to the meeting and scroll through and dice and digest all of this information right before you walk in the door. And now how empowered are you to have a more impactful meeting than your competitor.

[00:15:02] Yeah yeah it's the picture you're painting is very appealing.

[00:15:06] But I haven't I have this kind of deep rich profile on the person I'm going to meet and the company that they represent. You know before I go into these meetings going to is gonna give me a a much better strategy is going to inform my strategy and the my objectives for the meeting. Much much better than walking in cold and trying to get the stuff out of them which I may already know.

[00:15:29] The third party information is really interesting. I mean how often are I guess how much do you focus on. I mean is the whole kind of internal company that it might do their deal history in the projects that I've done they haven't done things I know internally. This idea of third party external information you know data sets data sources of various types would have I guess. How often do you see that really being used. How is it being used effectively. What kind of tools could or what kind of data can people pull into their sales system. That's either publicly available or available from third parties.

[00:16:02] I mean it's incredibly valuable and we see it incredibly frequently. I don't think this is a secret at least in a lot of industries. I mean in my industry for example if I were to go and do prospecting there are data sources out there that will tell me whether a company is using Salesforce or not. When I worked in private equity we were able to. And when I worked in private equity My job was to raise capital for the private equity fund. So the private equity fund themselves or more specifically the general partner that manages that fund would hire us to then go out and talk to institutional investors like university endowments like Harvard for example or pension funds like calipers the California Public Employees Retirement System talked to them about these various private equity funds that they might want to invest in and we could pull up a data source like frequent for example which by the way happens to have a native built integration with Salesforce. You wouldn't think private equity guys are using Salesforce but you'd be surprised and you are only able to see the names and phone numbers and email addresses of all the pertinent people at Harvard. But you're also able to see what like their asset allocation is to private equity and hedge funds and various other asset classes. What kind of things they've looked at. What kind of things they haven't. Exactly how many assets they have under management news that's in the press right now. All of this right at the click of a button. Now if you were going to go and pitch somebody I'm making a 50 million dollar investment. Nobody whether they're using Salesforce or not is going to consider going into that meeting not armed with that information but how much time does it take you to access that information. I'm not trying to teach somebody with 30 years of banking or investing experience how to be a better banker or investor. I'm simply trying to help them get access to information faster so they can do what they do best. Better.

[00:17:38] Yeah yeah no that makes sense and I think the you know if we look at it from a competitive point of view the company that has that at its fingertips versus the company that has to dig through files or you know spend an hour reading different reports to cobble that together is going to be obviously it is going to be a huge advantage.

[00:17:54] Well further to that one like if I could add we haven't touched on marketing and I think that's where there's a really exciting opportunity separate out sales versus marketing for me just so that we do or our listeners myself and the listeners have a good sense of how do you see the difference between sales and marketing.

[00:18:11] Oh that's a really tough question. I actually try to blend them together more than I try to separate them. I think that your typical person at least the way I thought of it before I got educated on it was I'm a salesperson I'm responsible for sales and what that means is I pick up the phone I go to meetings I present proposals et cetera and marketing is the team responsible for you know making sure people know who our company is maybe they're responsible for generating leads. But when I worked in private sector we're not getting know marketing based leads obviously but maybe there's a maybe there's some name brand recognition or something like that.

[00:18:44] But I think what we're seeing in our world is there's a real breakdown of those silos. It's no longer this idea that the marketer goes out and this is what you typically will see in the market goes down they spend money on public relations they spend money on advertising they may be generating leads and then that whatever effort is put forth or whatever money is invested it gets thrown over the fence to salespeople and then salespeople are then responsible for managing those relationships. And if you go back to like watching Glengarry Glen Ross your typical salesperson is complaining about how terrible the leads are and I want the gold leads right. And this is just a natural tendency for any like sales and marketing organization to have this level of conflict. Marketing is saying look we spent so much time and money to develop these for you. The reason these are not turning into revenue is because salespeople aren't doing their job and salespeople are pointing their finger right back at marketing and we're we're seeing like a lot of companies go. And this isn't really a new thing this has been happening for a long time is better integrating the two channels so we can say look the difference for me is marketing is responsible for working with people that have not yet or are not ready to have a serious conversation.

[00:19:52] Sales is responsible for talking to the people that are now. People can go in and out of that that description somebody can you know know of your name in the market and call you you can meet someone at a conference someone can fill out a form on a Web site to schedule a call and they can be very interested only to find out that actually know now that I've learned more I'm not yet ready. And what happens with a lot of sales organizations that person just dies on the vine. I talked to Bob. He doesn't have budget he's not ready. Timing is right. I'll put a tickler in six months to give him a call and I'm gonna completely forget about Bob for the next six months a year year and a half. And what's gonna happen over the course of time between now and that. You know let's say I'm using Salesforce and I created a task to remind myself well what happens is your competitors are after Bob and trying to win his business. And there's a good chance that when he says call me back in six months that that was not exactly a scientific estimate on when he's gonna be ready to have a conversation.

[00:20:46] Yes exactly. Classic case and you called him in six months was like oh you know we just hired somebody a month ago.

[00:20:51] It happens all the time and so what I think is really cool is you'll see we see a lot of organizations using marketing automation for example Pardot as a marketing automation tool and by Salesforce Hubspot is one that's more widely recognized in the market. And it gives these salespeople an ability and we even see this like with very high touch sales where they're saying look let me put this person back into a nurturing campaign where we can share relevant content with them. And then what we measure is his or her interaction with that content. So if that person is downloading the PDA off going to our Web site it might be time for me to pick the phone back up and call Bob back and see if I can get another meeting. If they're ignoring everything that we're sending them well then maybe maybe it really isn't time to talk to Bob yet.

[00:21:30] I like that it's a route rather than a kind of client defined touchpoint or scheduling the next touchpoint based on what the client says call me back. It's more it's based on activity and based on interaction with content Web site the marketing kind of marketing systems or marketing content.

[00:21:47] So let's talk a little bit about when a company needs to start thinking about these things because I know I'm assuming that there's a certain amount of kind of investment or in certain kind of work that needs to go and putting the strategy you know if I'm a one or two person shop and I'm you know kind of we're running our sales I'm very kind of intuitive way. You know we start to grow. How do you kind of qualify or how do you identify prospects or companies who are to the point where they need to start thinking about this from a strategy and from a system and from a process point of view.

[00:22:18] I mean is this you know companies from one or two people can do this stuff or do you need to be of a certain size or certain complexity before this stuff really starts paying off.

[00:22:27] It's an interesting question. I mean we don't work. We have worked with clients with one or two people but we don't work with a lot of them and when we do our engagement tends to be quite limited as you might imagine. I would say you know it depends I think on the marketing front we don't see a lot of extremely small organizations doing a lot. Now you can use a tool like constant contact or MailChimp and you can create a newsletter and you can measure the stuff and you can do it pretty quickly inexpensively and you don't have to pay a company like mine a lot or anything to set this up. I think at the point where you start investing really significant money in your marketing efforts you're spending money on MCO you're either in paying somebody to write content or you're doing yourself which represents an equal investment. Now the question is OK how do I maximize the are I on that investment and also how do I even maximize the are I on something if I'm not measuring the hour in the first place. Exactly.

[00:23:17] So I think like when you run across a company they say hey look like we're only spending a hundred thousand dollars a year on marketing. OK well that's a lot of money maybe not to you Mr. CEO over 10 million or a company but what could that marketing ultimately turn into. And you know what part of that marketing you know the proverbial. Well I know that all I know about my marketing is that half of it's working and half of it's not. But I don't know which one well we can fix that. You can measure from the very initial impression of a campaign all the way through not just not just generating leads but how much business is actually being closed in depending on how you're leveraging your systems to measure things further than that. That's what I love about salesforce. Let me look. Well maybe we're not even just measuring revenue but we actually measure. We're measuring seats out. We're measuring lifetime value of a customer. Now we can really get in there and understand like where should we double down on our marketing efforts.

[00:24:08] Yeah yeah. I like that it's kind of the question of how do I optimize or how do I improve the process is always based on well what do I know about its effectiveness and you have to have the data like you really have to know. Well I wiggled this thing over here and I got this result over here.

[00:24:22] I need to be able to connect the dots on that before I can really make some decisions I mean where do I spend more where do I spend mass less or where do I invest more and less on it.

[00:24:30] Yeah. And I would I would also add to that the other thing is we'll run into a lot of organizations and this is where I struggle is you know they'll say well I only have three salespeople. OK well you know you're spending five hundred thousand dollars a year on those three salespeople. How important is it for you to optimize their performance. Now I think for a lot of companies we talked to they're still not yet ready to really invest in making that process the best it can be because they only have three salespeople. They don't have huge budgets for technology. But from my standpoint if you're spending a half a million dollars on something you probably it probably makes sense to try to figure out how you can get the most out of that.

[00:25:06] And I agree I mean it's a five hundred thousand dollar payroll for salespeople is not it's not a small amount and you know spending 5 percent 10 percent of that towards you know some kind of effort to measure effectiveness seems seems like a pretty good investment of results.

[00:25:22] Have you found any kind of companies or situations or industries markets that just are not as particularly kind of good at this or it's difficult to do this kind of work in every industry has its own adoption curve.

[00:25:37] Now we obviously see in the world of technology technology companies they like technology obviously and they tend to drop things really fast. I think where we've spent a lot of time like I said is working with companies that have extremely high touch processes. My background is in finance we still work in a lot of financial services companies private equity investment banking wealth management etc. We also do a lot of work in commercial real estate and you do see a lot of companies doing some really interesting things in this space. But at the same time you see a lot of their competitors really not doing much of anything. And I think a lot of that is because the people running these organizations the people that are responsible for bringing in the majority of these relationships and revenue a lot of them have been around for a long time and they may still be operating with a process that was more relevant 30 years ago and they started their career or maybe even 30 years before that when their first boss started his or her career and it's been working.

[00:26:31] You know when you have a really hard working motivated intelligent well-informed person that can get meetings you're going to make money. That's not gonna stop working tomorrow. But we see other organizations and say yep that's great. But our average person is able to produce twice what our competitor is because we've taken all the other stuff out of that person's way. That person is no longer spending an hour physically drafting a contract or a proposal that could be automated just because there's information in a system that needs to get into a PDA file somehow. Like why would you have a person that's responsible for bringing in potentially millions of dollars of business spend their time on something like that.

[00:27:14] Yeah. And I think it's a great way of looking at it which is it's not it's not that it's broken. It's not that it's going to work is that the person who implements the technically kind of enhanced version there are gonna be two times three times four times faster and they're going to end up eating your lunch. So it's more about how do you stay competitive and how do you how do you move ahead in the game not just well. Yes your way works. It just doesn't work as well as the next person who's going to do it better.

[00:27:39] Well the other thing that we run into that's really challenging is a bit of a misalignment of incentives. One of the reasons that a lot of people don't want to adopt this process is because that in producer perspective they're saying look I have all this information in my head I don't really want to share that with the organization and if I decide to switch jobs I'll take it with me. And that's obviously detrimental to the company. You have this person that has been with you for five or 10 years that has built up millions of dollars worth of knowledge.

[00:28:04] And the second they leave they take that right out the door with them and hi and how do you how do you create the incentive for for the person to actually provide that number share that knowledge or enter that knowledge into the system what's what's the how do you frame it for their benefit.

[00:28:17] So it's challenging. I think it's a bit of a carrot and stick the stick is obviously to some extent you have to say look like we pay you a lot of money to work here just as much as we expect to you to you know we meet the requirements of your job and come to the office every day if that's the kind of company you run we expect to you to use these systems. And I think you have to be very clear on what those expectations are. You can't go and say look every single time you get off the phone with somebody I want you to enter these 35 five data points before you pick up the phone and talk to the next person that doesn't work right and say to say look we we expect to you to enter these three basic data points on a big deal that you're working. I think that that is more than acceptable for most people. And the flip side of that on you know the carrot side is not only are we looking to gather information so that you as an individual can be more effective but also how do you collaborate internally. Right. The average buying decision is made by I think five to seven different people in the business in terms of business buying decisions as you move up in terms of the size of the investment that number increase and it increases inside the company as well. So now you're collaborating with three four five six different individuals. Do you want to go into your e-mail and pen out a five paragraph e-mail every time you want to explain the status of a deal to someone or do you want to simply point them to the system that's already housing that information and say hey quick update. I just met with a client. This is the new information save share said. Can we meet about this tomorrow. And now we're going into a meeting not to share data points but to discuss strategy.

[00:29:51] I like that idea that at the end of the day the end of the argument is where the the benefit to the salesperson is they're going to get this hugely powerful tool to actually help them sell more or sell better or sell faster or sell more profitably. You know the tradeoff is that you know they're going to have to enter the some of this information to this system and yes you know we can kind of manage the amount and we're not going to make it onerous but you know that's the tradeoff. And you're going to net net you're going to make more money you're I'd be a better better salesperson by using the system and entering the information because it's going to give you that value back.

[00:30:24] I think that's a good way to approach it and we're gonna hit time here. Eddie if people find out more about you about Union Square I'm sure there's lots of.

[00:30:33] I always get questions about sales and sales process sales automation sales systems sales force.

[00:30:40] If people want to find out more how what's the best way to get a hold of you and find out more Web site.

[00:30:44] Union Square consulting dot com. I'm on Linkedin or they can send me an email. Eddie and union square consulting dot com. That's Eddie EDT i.e. And then I guess into our consulting dot com restored.

[00:30:55] All right I will and I'll make sure that all that is in the show notes to be able to click through. Eddie this has been great. Thank you so much. Great conversation. I've learned a fair amount. I love your integration of marketing and sales you know making that a much more fluid relationship. I think that makes a lot of sense and I really appreciate the time and the conversation today.

[00:31:13] Well thanks for having me I enjoyed it as well.

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