Jessica Rhodes, Founder & CEO, Interview Connections

Scaling Up Services - Jessica Rhodes

Jessica Rhodes, Founder & CEO, Interview Connections

Jessica is the founder and equal co-owner of Interview Connections. She has scaled the business quickly to high multiple six figures, with nearly no direct marketing or ads, and will break through the 7-figure mark in 2018. Jessica and her in house team of Booking Agents are the podcast powerhouses behind many of the record breaking book launches you’ve seen today, with clients such as JJ Virgin, Perry Marshall, other authors you may know, and numerous PR agencies who hire them for their podcasting savvy and booking skills.

Jessica started podcasting in 2014 with the launch of Rock the Podcast and also co-hosts The Podcast Producers and Womensplaining. She is the acclaimed author of Interview Connections: How to #RockThePodcast From Both Sides of the Mic! and has been a featured speaker at Podcast Movement, Podfest Multimedia Expo, and Dream Business Academy. She is married and is the mom of two kids, Nathan and Lucy.


[00:00:01] You're listening to Scaling Up Services where we speak with entrepreneurs authors business experts and thought leaders to give you the knowledge and insights you need to scale your service based business faster and easier. And now here is your host Business Coach Bruce Eckfeldt.

[00:00:22] Are you a CEO looking to scale your company faster and easier. Checkout Thrive Roundtable thrive combines a moderated peer group mastermind expert one on one coaching access to proven growth tools and a 24/7 support community created by Inc award winning CEO and certified scaling up business coach Bruce Eckfeldt. Thrive will help you grow your business more quickly and with less drama. For details on the program visit That's E C K F E L D slash thrive. .

[00:00:58] Welcome everyone this is Scaling up Services. I'm Bruce Eckfeldt. I'm your host and our guest today is Jessica Rhodes and she is founder and co-owner of Interview Connections and we're gonna talk a little bit about podcasting we're going to talk about how to scale your business through thought leadership and getting your ideas out there into the market with that. Jessica welcome to the program.

[00:01:15] Hey Bruce thanks so much for having me on your show today.

[00:01:18] So it's always fun to have someone else that's in the podcasting world on the podcast but why don't we start with a little bit of your background so before you got into this business what were you doing what was your professional background and what led to this business.

[00:01:30] So my professional background I actually before I became an entrepreneur and started my business I was in nonprofit so I was working at a nonprofit called Clean Water Action directing their door to door field canvass. That was like my college job and then I just kind of moved up the ranks in that organization as I graduated college I became a director so that was my background I studied communication in college so I remember I took one PR class I took some media classes so it kind of is convenient that I ended up having a business in this industry but it wasn't necessarily the plan because as it never is exactly what I did when I had been with the nonprofit for about six years. I was you know I had just gotten married I got pregnant with my first child. And you know there's there's a shift if any of you have kids like you get there. If that happens and I wanted to be home I didn't want to be working long hours and making not a lot of money with it with the new baby so I left that job. And my dad is an entrepreneur. He's a business coach he has an online business so he introduced me to the world of online business and I started a virtual assistant company. Interesting.

[00:02:43] I was a freelancer with about three clients that was that that was the very very beginning.

[00:02:50] I was working from home with my baby. And as things were growing one of the tasks one of the services that I was providing to my clients was podcast booking. It was something that my dad as one of my first clients wanted me to do for him and then I started doing that for some other client and that's really around that time. And it's like early 2013 I kind of got bit by that entrepreneur bug and I like all right I don't just want to be invoicing for the hours I'm working because then I just have a job I want to really build a business I want to scale the business so which is why I just I love your show. I still do it because I'm like Oh I totally get this because I had and have a service business. And the question always is how can I scale this. How can I make more money but not just work more hours. And that's that was the shift again in starting my current business. Interview connections I launched interview connections and follow 2013 and we've grown a lot since then.

[00:03:47] Congratulations. I mean I think that it's it's a it's a fascinating and well every story is kind of unique. I think the model or the pattern I see again and again which is you know someone's doing a job or someone's providing some kind of service and it's usually a generalized service that most kind of many tasks many facets but they see some piece of it that they realize has some meat and has some ability to kind of grow. And the question is how did they do that and how do they make that into something that they can kind of do exclusively are more focused and create a business around it. So I think a great way to start a service company and you know services are kind of that have that cutting edge or that double edge sword to them where they're they're kind of easy to start.

[00:04:27] It's easy to kind of hang up a shingle put together an LLC and say that you're going to focus on this thing but they can be kind of tougher to build and oftentimes because it's you know you don't know how to find people and you kind of have to staff up I guess how how narrowly or how how did you go about kind of figuring out that this you know booking service was going to be something that you can scale it and what have you learned about how narrow or wide that is or what types of booking you do or times you were kind of booking you don't do. I mean how would you define that service as you kind of have grown the company.

[00:04:56] Yes. So being really like really ditching down and being specific about what we do and what we don't do has definitely been one of the big keys to our success because there's so many things that we can do and over the years people always say look what do you do this it's so similar. But I think the more like the more you dilute a service business the harder it is to really market it and know who your. Your client is and really optimize and increase the quality of the service. So we started the business actually serving just podcast host so podcasters hired us to find their guests and I'm like I remember the first program was like the book it and promote it. We would find your guests schedule them. We would create a graphic so that they could share it like there was this whole bunch of stuff and over the years we kind of just as we scaled up we kind of simplified the service. So we added in a service where we get people booked on other shows and that's actually our core service now based on just the demand in the marketplace. More people want to be booked on other shows as a guest podcast host don't have as much trouble finding guests because you probably have so many people coming to you exactly on your show you don't really need to pace one to find people.

[00:06:12] Unless of course like we have some clients who interview really unique people that aren't pitching them. So we help them find those interesting unique types of gas but yeah. So we kind of shifted as the industry grew and evolved. We kind of changed our model to really focus more on getting people booked on other shows and for a while we would help with scheduling the recording and we made a shift a couple of years ago we said okay we're not gonna actually schedule the recording once we have the booking we hands it off to the client because then we turn into an assistant then assistant we're just not the service that we specialize and we specialize in you know finding podcasts pitching podcasts that's totally different from managing someone's schedule. So that was it. That was a key thing that we did in order to scale is know what we're good at and what we're not good at.

[00:06:56] Well I think that's a great example and it's something I'm always telling clients that I'm working with in terms of how to scale the business is the faster you want to scale the more you need to focus the more narrow and specific you need to make because it has to do with how well you can marketed how well you can sell it how well you can operationalize it. You know the talent that you need to develop the training the manuals like the more an issue are the easier all that stuff is. But it's I think it's I don't know if it's counterintuitive. It's certainly it's difficult for an earlier stage company to say no to a lot of things. Let me guess what did you know in kind of retrospect and reflecting back on this. What were some of the challenges or what are some examples of things that you. It was difficult to say no to in the beginning and then you know what was it about was about money or you know it is kind of what you thought you were doing and when you said no to it you know what did it allow you to do.

[00:07:50] Yes. So it's funny because I'm remembering like it years ago I would have on the website this like a long list of you know like the comparison check marks which are great for like you know SAS businesses here all the features of the different levels and I remember having that like if you get this level and I would list like as many possible things just to make it look like a lot of food ordered and delivered to your show if you're hungry you know because I thought that people wanted more stuff and the more start like the more ways I could explain like we're gonna do all this stuff. And what I I you know to answer. Here's what I had to say no to was just cutting out a lot of that stuff and really just saying yes to the one service that we do and that we excel at which is connecting people for interviews finding the right shows doing that strategy work in the beginning and so then you know kind of more recently within the last year or so people would ask us to. Will you schedule my recordings or will you create my landing page I know we're not an executive assistant. No we're not a website design company so saying no to that stop it is a little scary because you think well somebody wants to pay me for this but ultimately like that's not what we do. So I say no to that. It opens up the door because the time and we kind of did this evaluation with our coach we looked at OK how even if we could charge somebody with money to schedule the recordings that time is taken away from maybe five clients that would pay just as much for the bookings because that's what they actually want. That's it our ideal client actually wants yeah yeah.

[00:09:19] And that's a good one. I think if it's a if you look at it as a local optimization if you look at it as Oh well while I could just do this one more service for this client it's tough to see it but if you realize that I only have so much time and energy where it where am I best applying this that that becomes becomes easier to kind of see the rationale for focusing on the thing that you're great at and the thing that you can make you can excel at to make even more money on if you're losing if you're chasing the next dollar it's hard.

[00:09:49] Yeah. So in terms of I mean it sounds like you made a couple shift over this time period where those easy hard decisions.

[00:09:56] I mean I guess I mean I find a lot of these kind of Strategic pivots and and things end up being kind of logical and obvious in retrospect with time. What I guess what was the when did you first sort of see opportunities for kind of shifting some of these things and then like what was the what was the decision making process like around the Yeah.

[00:10:16] I mean so yes they were definitely difficult decisions to. Different. Difficult choices to make. In retrospect it's like OK it's easy and they get easier as we go because the longer we're on business the more success we have the less those individual choices and decisions seem like such a big deal. And that's something like our mastermind group has really helped us with just little choices we're like We agonize over and they're like This isn't a big deal just to decide and move on. So we've gotten a lot better at it but they you know especially like in the first five years which we're going into year six these decisions are difficult because they're like Is this going to make or break my business like especially when you have what seems to be a really great clients say hey I want you to do this. I want to work with you if you can do this. It's like oh God you know like you don't want to turn away Beth says. But then you look you turn around and you then you have like twice as many people over here are saying oh no I don't need all that stuff I just need this. So yes they are difficult decisions in the moment but in hindsight it just reassures you like you have to go with your gut and really just like exactly know what your service is best and know what your company is best at and really really focus on that.

[00:11:25] Yeah and I take it as sweet as you get bigger as you grow as you become more successful. You've made more or more decisions. I think it's it's you can see it but you see it easier.

[00:11:35] It's like oh I'm in one of those situations again. I see what I should do that it's not the first time that you're kind of facing them.

[00:11:41] So you mentioned a couple of things in there that I wanted to kind of hear how they came about or how you chose to do so. You mentioned a coach you mentioned mastermind groups. What are some of these kind of external program structures. I mean a lot of a lot of people who found companies or kind of find themselves in a service owning a service based business run a service based business. They're very internally focused. How how have you I guess what have you investigated in terms of ways in which to help yourself grow and be strategic and work on the business. Not in the business. What what does work for you what hasn't worked for you. What have you what have you experienced.

[00:12:19] Yeah. So I mean definitely getting out of the business as much as possible as literally as much as you can. Yeah has been super key for us so for the first several years we definitely went to a lot of industry conferences just to you know just to build the exposure and to let people know what we do because you know this is a new industry. Podcasting is a new industry. We were the first podcast booking agency so literally for the first couple years we don't have any competitors so we were just making sure people knew about us. And then once that caught on once more people started starting businesses like this. The word started spreading more people are finding us on Google so now we're thinking OK now it's not just about exposure but it's about how can we optimize and stand apart and make our service unique so it doesn't just look like so we don't just are not commodities and people don't just like price shop around. So we started to get outside of our industry and I joined my business partner and I we joined Ali Brown's premier group which is a group of women female entrepreneurs. The average revenue in the group is well over seven figures and from all different industries. So in the group were the only people in the group like in the podcasting industry you know there's a lot of all different industries.

[00:13:31] And so it's super valuable to get insight and coaching and advice from people in successful businesses outside of our industry. So that has been really really important.

[00:13:42] Let's just chat about that one second because I think that's that's something that comes up a lot.

[00:13:46] I see a lot of you know leaders you know founders entrepreneurs who are kind of figuring out how to get inside and and so say they're a managed service provider and you know they want to go network with the men a service provider that is twice as big as they are now or 10 times because of that because they feel like that's going to be the best source of information. And I do find that there is a lot of insight to be developed and gained from people that are in other industries. And so I guess what. What are some of the whores that you've had in terms of masterminding with folks that are in not in your immediate industry and what's kind of the perspective or what is some of the takeaway is that you've been able to get from those folks.

[00:14:30] So one of the biggest things has been by getting outside of our industry it really reminds me how stuff that seems really obvious to me is not obvious to people who are in my industry. You know like. And people will just say like well I don't know I'm trying to get like something simple like how do I know like how many downloads I have like something that if you're literally in the podcasting issue you have a podcast you do this all day long you like you would never thing to write a blog post about that cause you're like this is so basic. But then I remember what you get in the room of really successful people. They're just not in my industry. And I remember oh what's so obvious and basic to me is actually really high value information to this person over here who would be a fantastic client. So that is really probably one of the most valuable. All aspects of masterminding with people outside my industry is just getting in the mindsets in the heads of ideal clients for me but not necessarily people in this same kind of business.

[00:15:31] Yeah but that's a good one because I think we do get we get very in our own soup and if we know if we're working on that for too long that becomes the norm and we forget what the what the rest of the world is like.

[00:15:43] Oh totally.

[00:15:44] The other thing is branding too because this is something that our coach Ali really helped us with is when I started working with her about two three years ago. She helped me rebrand and really attract a higher higher level like client tell business owners that are doing you know over seven figures and it's just as simple as how I'm communicating what I'm doing. Literally the colors and the fonts of the logo how the website looks. All of that stuff was not I wasn't really thinking about it I was doing this service I was operating the business and just having her go to the website and kind of give me her first reactions and like how things looked and how things were communicated really really helped because you know you look around in your industry and everyone kind of looks the same.

[00:16:29] So you think Oh I'm. I'm kind of in line with everyone else. That's the problem.

[00:16:35] So now like literally I've had so many people that say how your website just stood out was so different. You know so again getting someone outside the industry at a higher level look at it and kind of help you differentiate is so important and has been so valuable.

[00:16:50] Yeah yeah I think that's a big one as you get we start comparing ourselves to the competitors rather than thinking about what is what is our target what is our prospect seeing and what impact do we want to make on them. And then sometimes we want to be different. I mean sometimes we kind of we want to make sure that we're positioned right. So they understand us her product or service but we also need to differentiate from our competitors so that the customer gets why they should hire us or kind of desperate for us. Good. I'm guessing within that kind of learning to purely as you're going to higher value customers that there was some pricing factors in there.

[00:17:23] Tell Tell me a little bit about pricing how you kind of approach pricing how you've changed your thinking around pricing but kind of mechanically and also from a mindset point of view. Like what what was what was the evolution there.

[00:17:34] Oh my gosh. So when we first always an issue.

[00:17:38] This is why I always know this one's going to go up.

[00:17:40] I know it's good.

[00:17:41] So for us for several years it was all month to month pricing and you know the prices went up. I when I first started our prices were like forty seven dollars a month seventy seven. We had a couple different levels and then just kind of continued to go OK. We're one ninety seven a month to ninety seven like every hundred bucks. We would we would raise our prices. And it really reached a point where we would just have to sign on so many new monthly clients to continue to scale and grow. So we made a shift about a year or so ago maybe a year and a half ago we focused more on selling packages. So instead of signing on monthly retainers monthly packages we sold packages of bookings so you know we're a podcast booking agency for a long time. You both paid a certain amount per month for a certain number of bookings per month. Then we kind of shifted to selling like 15 bookings for X amount or 24 or 30 bookings so people would invest in a whole package. And the mindset I mean number one cash wise it was it's been a lot better to get like five eight ten thousand dollars per sale than 490 7 9 7.

[00:18:52] So that's number one. That is really great for cash flow wise but the mindset shift was we were now signing up clients that were prepared to commit to this strategy for 15 earnings which ends up being four to five months. So we were attracting people who were just more confident in this strategy. They were people that were ready to commit because so many people that signed up for a month to month were like. Their mindset is my try this for a month or two and see if I like it. And yeah you're getting a great job and have people stay for a long time but it was just rolling the dice every time. So now you know we sign up you know when you raise your prices like that and you then focus on selling five thousand plus dollar packages you're going to close less deals because not as many people are going to pay that but the quality of the client has skyrocketed like we are working with multi seven and eight figure companies people that they still look at the price of five thousand I was like Oh yeah. That's like a drop in the bucket.

[00:19:45] I'm like Yeah that's the kind of client Yeah you want to be a drop in the bucket.

[00:19:51] Yeah. So that's a big shift and then even just recently just a few months ago we took the monthly option off the rate card and I'll I'll you know I might offer it to someone by invitation if it if it seems like it's really what they need. But changing that has been really important for our business.

[00:20:06] Well that's a good one because I think that a lot of people get get worried when we talk about Target customer or pricing where we say this is what we're gonna go out with this is we're going to focus on say oh well but that's going to you know that's going to really filter down my prospect pool or. It's going to really limit the number of people I can work with. That's good that we're going to we're really going to concentrate your focus customer. But the thing is you can always offer it to other people and it doesn't mean that we're not going to do business with someone who's not in the target customer.

[00:20:33] It just means from a strategy and a mindset and a messaging point of view that's what we want to focus on. And we'll have some peripheral business around that and we can look at the more that we can concentrate the better. I think so many people end up just chasing money you know just any any customer they can get. That's willing to buy something you know ends up diluting them. And it makes it more difficult to scale the business. Oh yeah. Good. So we talked about pricing a little bit. Guess what else have you learned in terms of thinking strategically about the business rather than working in the business. What are either the tools or strategies techniques that you've used to help really kind of think about how your how you're approaching the business and what you can do better in terms of being able to grow and scale it.

[00:21:10] Yeah. So a big thing that we haven't talked about yet is just the team structure. So this is a really big shift from when I started the business for the first several years I grew a team of virtual contractors. I mean I was at home with the baby so I couldn't imagine in the first couple of years having employees but as we grew in 2017 I made the shift too I got rid of all of our virtual contractors and I started hiring in-house employees got an office like was all on site and so we are currently a team of 12 onsite employees and as we grew the team creating different positions. So within the business we have people specialized and focused on certain responsibilities so you know we've got our booking agents. We have a full time employee who does all the show research finding the shows. We have a manager who can really help us with the on site like team stuff. And I brought on a business partner. I kind of glossed over that but I started the business on my own. And in twenty eighteen on my first employee became co-owner. And so then she you know she's chief of operations. I do all the sales and the marketing and then we have a team a manager and so by building the team and having different people in leadership really spearhead certain parts of the business that has been really really critical because I think when you you know dilute any one person's role too much and this is the advice that we got from somebody in our master my group Kelly Roach she's an expert in team stuff and we were starting to actually have our manager do a lot of different things like this.

[00:22:46] We got somebody in leadership we're gonna do all this stuff and she's like whoa whoa like you don't want to dilute your manager too much. And I think that can be said for any person that you have in your staff if you dilute someone too much. They can't focus and really excel at the thing that they're best at.

[00:23:01] Yeah yeah I think that's an it's it's one of the dynamics that happens as the company scales is that people become more and more specialized and the roles become more specialized the processes become more kind of defined I guess for you as you know someone who went from kind of starting the company and kind of doing it all to now pretty focused in their role. I mean even at the leadership level you know now sort of dividing up the operations from sales.

[00:23:25] I guess how did you go about figuring out what you wanted to do what parts your best at what you were kind of excited and energized by how did you know finding the people to kind of take over those pieces. How did you know the process of actually handing over. Tell us a little bit about how that's work for you personally.

[00:23:41] Yeah well I wish I could say there was always a clear system in place.

[00:23:46] I had this plan and I just executed the plan perfectly.

[00:23:50] So it's interesting. A lot of it you know I'll talk first about having a manager because when we hired a manager that was a really big step to hire an employee a full time employee who doesn't actually do any booking work.

[00:24:01] We're like oh my gosh like that was a that was an investment and adding somebody to the leadership team just to over oversee everything and help us there. So we kind of kind of shot and then misfired a couple times for that. So a couple of years ago we did hire a manager and our idea was OK. She was kind of a full booking load and she was going to manage again made the mistake of we diluted her way too much and didn't really know what we needed at the time. So I mean that was the first thing is we hired a manager way too soon and realized oh gosh we don't need this. We can actually empower a lot of our current employees to take on some more responsibility pay them a little bit more and we don't need a full employee to do all this stuff. But then we got to a point where it was time. The other thing advice that we got from our coach was she says just keep your eye out because when you find the perfect person you're gonna want to find a place for them. And so we interviewed that our manager we interviewed him a couple of years ago as May I guess 20 18 and he was great and we offered him the job and he actually he accepted and then he didn't accept because he says you know what I did because he was he had been in a job for a really long time was super loyal. He goes I don't want to leave them high and dry I need to replace myself.

[00:25:14] And we're like oh my gosh she's so loyal like no more like a.

[00:25:21] You know you need to put a in sales that we kept in touch with him you know and because we kept interviewing for other positions and he we just kept thinking like he was such a great candidate and we really see him here. So we kept in touch with him. And later that fall I just reached out like Hey let's have a cup of coffee let's check in about where you're at because I know he was still looking for a career change and just the timing worked out. So that was really really critical is like keeping an eye on people that candidates that you interview who are really good fit. And it's just like buyers by your service when they're ready to not when you want them to go. Right. Job applicants will come on board when the time is right. Not necessarily always when you want them to or when they you know they might want to be hired when you're not hiring. So by keeping in touch with Matt it worked out really well. And then he ended up coming on board in December and it was just there were a couple of things happening. We had an interesting project opportunity that came to us that we said OK we bring that on. We'll have the bandwidth to do this.

[00:26:26] So anyway yeah that's the long and that's a good thing takeaway for folks and this is something I tell all of my kind of senior leaders is that they need to have a list of people that they would like to hire. And you know always be searching for talent and always having you know ideas for people who would make good fits in the organization before they need the people because if they if you start looking for talent when you need the Dahlan you know that's painful and it takes months or you having to pay recruiters lots of money. So always be on the lookout for people who are a good cultural fit who have skills that you know you're going to need in the coming months and years and then you can go to them and when you have the open position when you actually have the need you can reach out to the you know hopefully half a dozen dozen people who you've been kind of thinking about and hopefully one or two of them will actually be available at that time or be interested at a time because it is it's a it's a timing issue.

[00:27:16] Oh absolutely and the other thing that I love to do is always having a current organizational chart and an organizational chart for six months out and a year out because we always want to just see that slider I'm going to keep growing you know right now we have Margi and I we have Matt we have our booking agents and and we're looking at OK we'll create a team lead position and we're just looking at how it will grow so that way when all the sudden everyone's plates are super full and we don't have bandwidth and everyone's super busy we have a plan in place to how we're going to expand what roles are we going to create. So I find that some super fine is to like look at OK. What is the business going to look like in a year.

[00:27:51] I'm not surprised by it but have a plan on how to get there.

[00:27:54] It's great. I actually have an article coming out on ink on on this I call it that why every organization should have two or charts and it's the current one. Yeah well I don't I don't. I'll figure out when the published it is. But yes why every organization should have the current one which is the map to to everyone in terms of who is responsible for what and who is you know what the coordination points are and stuff.

[00:28:14] And then the one that I'm working towards which is that the next level or the organization that I've designed that I'm building towards and making sort of strategic moves and finding the right talent is recruiting. So I think that's a great that's a great concept to have in mind as you're building organization.

[00:28:28] I love that. Yeah. And that's something that you know we're having map focus on. Being a manager and so we're looking at. OK when are when are we going to bring on a salesperson. So that's like another exciting thing is like just looking at different positions that you're going to create. It's as you can see we geek out about this stuff that this land and its future focus work.

[00:28:46] I mean you're creating things. I mean that's a fun part of being an entrepreneur.

[00:28:49] I actually remember being on an airplane because I was at a conference when I decided to have employees and I just remember being on an airplane like flying home or find you a conference and writing out my organizational chart. And I remember being like I am literally creating jobs right now.

[00:29:04] This is pretty cool though and the one thing about airplanes now that I find disappointing is now we have Wi-Fi in airplanes and I don't have the time to think you know people actually expect me to respond but can we get the. Can we have Wi-Fi all our problems please.

[00:29:18] Can you turn it off so I could explain to people but I couldn't have asked Wi-Fi to.

[00:29:23] Let's talk a little bit about your business on the customers. Do you have. Who are you focused on at this point and what are the service you're providing them.

[00:29:29] So we have a few main kinds of clients that we work best with coaches and consultants are great for us service business owners so digital agency owners are fantastic. And then real estate investor slash real estate investor coaches those are sort of our main three kinds of clients that we work with and we book them for interviews on leading podcasts in their niche. It's a great way for them to get exposure for what they do and to like we said before differentiate themselves from their competitors because with a service business a lot of times people you know your your prospective clients will start to commodities you they'll just like review all the different websites they like but when they hear a podcast interview with the founder the CEO the chief marketing officer it will immediately set you apart and people will feel drawn to you. They'll feel like they have a closer connection to your company and what you do. And so it really sells high. Clients a lot easier.

[00:30:22] Yeah.

[00:30:23] And we know you don't actually provide the scheduling schedule your own.

[00:30:29] We will find the shows connect you with the host and take all of that work off and then you can find the time on your calendar and a lot of our clients like I said we're working with multi-step bigger businesses they already have substance. Yeah.

[00:30:41] So there are people in place to get stuff out. Awesome. And if people want to find out more about the services and about you what's the best place to get that information.

[00:30:50] Sure. is where you can learn more about us. We have a blog. And if you're thinking about doing this you can fill out a form we can hop on a no pressure call to just learn more about what you do and yet again that's at

[00:31:05] Great. Thank you. I will make sure that those are in the Euros in the show notes so people can click through and get that information. Jessica this has been a pleasure. Thank you for taking the time. Thanks for the super fun.

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