Angela Yeh, Founder, Yeh IDeology

Scaling Up Services - Angela Yeh

Angela Yeh, Founder, Yeh IDeology

Angela Yeh is the founder of Yeh IDeology, a talent strategy firm specializing in executive recruitment and career coaching the design and innovation industry. Through her Thrive By Design executive coaching program for creative high potentialities, she’s come to understand why most professionals fail to pivot. In the program she shows professionals, what’s holding them back, how to identify where they can thrive best to reach success immediately. She unlocks your highest potential.


[00:00:01] You're listening to Scaling Up Services where we speak with entrepreneurs authors business experts and thought leaders to give you the knowledge and insights you need to scale your service based business faster and easier. And now here is your host Business Coach Bruce Eckfeldt.

[00:00:22] Are you a CEO looking to scale your company faster and easier. Checkout Thrive Roundtable thrive combines a moderated peer group mastermind expert one on one coaching access to proven growth tools and a 24/7 support community created by Inc award winning CEO and certified scaling up business coach Bruce Eckfeldt. Thrive will help you grow your business more quickly and with less drama. For details on the program visit That's E C K F E L D slash thrive. .

[00:00:58] Welcome everyone this is Scaling up Services, I’m Bruce Eckfeldt, I’m your host, and our guest today is Angela Yeh. She is founder of Yah Ideology. She is also founder of Thrive by Design, which is an executive coaching program. We're going to learn more about her and her programs. I'm excited about this. Angela deals with this phenomenally interesting space of innovation and creative services and so on. I'm excited for this conversation. I think there's a really interesting angle to the service sector. So with that, Angela, welcome to the program.

[00:01:26] Thank you. First, thank you so much for having me on your podcast. Yeah. Yeah. I have to say, just listening to your podcast, by the way, there's so much that so many entrepreneurs can learn from startups, two very seasoned businesses. And in fact, I've turned a lot of people business owners into this. So really excited that you've built it and have me on it. Yeah.

[00:01:49] So let's let's talk a little bit about your kind of professional background, how you got into innovation, how you got into creative services. And then we'll talk a little bit about the business and experience you've had actually running its founding and running a service company. So what's the backstory?

[00:02:02] Absolutely. My undergraduate was in psychology and, you know, going there, I think I I saw a lot of people who are trading things back then.

[00:02:12] This is design. It's early stages, right. People were designing products, just solving problems in machines, solving problems in systems. They were just beginning. Right. And spin forward. Two years later, I got into design, got into watching and seeing every aspect of the design industry beyond solving products to solving culture and systems and got into it as a design director. At that point, I was recruiting people and noticed that there were a lot of professionals who had different skills. Let's just say that innovation today catch up to speed. There's so many different ways, just like medicine now has. You know, years ago you had the family doctor, right? One doctor who did everything.

[00:02:54] Now the space of and when I say innovation, different people, let me tell you that come from different backgrounds. We'll call it design. Some people will call it strategy and some people will call it innovation. And it's vast. It's now as there's so many subsectors.

[00:03:09] It's as vast as medicine where you have you know, you have an oncology, you have, you know, a cardiologist, you have, you know, surgeons where you have all dermatology.

[00:03:20] It's amazing. So it now and design, you have designers, professionals, innovators who can solve service businesses. They can solve products, they can solve cultural issues. We have professionals we know in the space that can work with cities to look at what's happening with their cities, to see what's not working. So, yeah, in this profession, it's fascinating. Look at what we can say.

[00:03:43] Well, you know, it's interesting because I think I mean, yes, I agree.

[00:03:47] And I think I might even take it another step in that I think the whole kind of creative design world has undergone this this huge transformation just with digital technology.

[00:03:57] I mean, so I mean, it's like a whole, you know, a whole new industry or a whole new kind of you know, it's like I'd like your your medical analogy.

[00:04:04] You know, it's like taking medicine and saying understanding of bacteria, you know, also comes into play and like it totally disrupts the whole actual work. But I think that, you know, design professionals on, you know, from a creative point of view have been very disrupted by this whole kind of digital technology. And me both from the things that people are designing, you know, the whole kind of UX user experience sort of world has really come into existence the last 20 years. You guys as well, the software, but also in how you work.

[00:04:35] It's unbelievable. Yeah. Oh, my God. So let's talk about UX and UI, right? Every business today has to have a web presence, a mobile presence. Not only that, there's a whole space now where it's customer experience. How are you going to engage with your customer? Right. And so it's really fascinating because this was, in fact, years ago with just a small startup sector. And that's massive. Right. But even in the space of UI, UX, one aspect of design and an innovation, there is different aspects to that. Right. Are you solving just the Web site and the interface, maybe how you're housing and showcasing your services or your product or your culture? Or is it about how you're literally selling? Is it commerce, how you're selling to your customer? So. In this space, what's really interesting is when we meet businesses, they first come to us and they say, oh, we need you, are you X Y? And it's not just that they need it. The question is where do they need it? And in their business, right? Yes. Could it be that they're starting something from scratch, right?

[00:05:37] Yeah. How do you. So how do you kind of assess that?

[00:05:39] Like when you got a call from a company who says, hey, look, look, we're looking for talent, people and innovation or in design or business is a strategy or design strategy.

[00:05:50] What is what is the process that you go through to really even understand kind of what they even need or what what they're asking for and that what they're asking for going to be successful?

[00:06:00] Does that fit their business? What's your right? Well, it's interesting because it's a great question that you asked that people a lot of people come to us and they just give us you know, they soon start the conversation, say art. Let's say, for instance, three different companies could be looking for a V.P. of UX user experience. One client. And then we listen to their problem. You know, it's understanding what the the subtlety of their problem and the structure of their problem. Right. One could say we have a site, but we're not connecting with a customer. Another one could say, hey, you know, we're we're realizing that it's our customer experience with the customer. Another one could be it is the commerce and building it. It's or it could be building a new product category. Right. Each of these are different problems to solve. And based on the different types of problems, there will be a different kind of expert, different kind of professional. That would be right for leading, let's say, this initiative. Right. This V.P. of you wax depends on what the company's problems are. It helps us understand what that type of talent would be.

[00:07:00] Right. And it's interesting that you say this, because almost every client comes to us with some similar generic form of job description initially. Right. It's interesting. We've had one client where just with three different V.P. positions, they would use the same description. But then when we got into listening to the hiring team, the C suite, you know what? What is the initiative for that department to find the right leader? Then you realize that, you know, with innovation, there's so many types of problems to solve. Well, let's say everybody. Most people now come to us and they say, well, we have a UX problem. And then they could all say, yes, we have a product, in fact. Right. Let's say they all have a product. In fact, they could be three different companies in the same industry. All right. Let's say it's let's just say it's fintech, right? You know, one client could have fintech problems and they're just beginning there. In fact, just in the level of what stage that product category is, and if they've never built one, then there's a different type of leader that would build researching innovation. That's a whole different expertise.

[00:08:05] Do you find that there are some professionals when you're looking at sort of the talent side? There are some professionals that are really good at very early stage, kind of, you know, when you're kind of. Yeah, doing research and trying to get a new product or a new kind of developing new product versus kind of the growth phase versus sort of maturing and optimizing those different people.

[00:08:24] Absolutely. And I love that you ask that question. So that's one way to analyze this. Right. And one of the ways is where are you in the stage of this product line? Right. Have you not even discovered what new category to build in? So there is a certain kind of talent that knows how to canvas the industry and just pioneer and start setting the ground like first there's the stage of research, right? Is it design research? It's a customer experience analyzing the customer base. The market, right. Blue sky in some sense. Right. And then once you've decided you've got clarity about what the market's like, what's missing, where your corporation stands. Is it even viable for your corporation to segway to that space? Then there's a certain kind of talent that would then say with all these actual insights, all this data, let's decide where are we going next?

[00:09:09] What are we gonna build? What what's the company capable of? Right. How far do we want to go? One thing that we look at, we noticed most companies say we want transformational innovation. Right. But when you look at the way a company is structured, not every company is looking for a full on transformational innovation. Sometimes for some companies, it's incremental. But yes, that could be incredibly viable in shifting and tweaking certain pieces of a business right now.

[00:09:37] So, yeah, there are in one way to look at it, there are people who just research to say, where are we going to go?

[00:09:43] Another category would be people who developed a strategy and they know now, OK. This is how we're going to build it. And then there's another level where it's about, you know, ideation, product development. Let's now build it. Let's now build out the structure of this business model. Let's look at and finesse the logistics, because there's a lot to do. In fact, so many companies have ideas, so many ideas about. Right. Ideas are cheap. Yes. And in fact, there is now a trend where now businesses are realizing that, you know, in the last 10 years, you've got so many company, big corporations to small. It's all about. Building ideas and now we've got enough traction and data to realize that building, I guess, is one thing. Now, how do you build the idea and make sure that you've got the whole system from the beginning to the end all worked out, right? Because a lot of businesses don't figure out how do we. Here are some great insights that we're going to build. X may think it's not that simple, but there's a lot of components to that where if you don't understand the whole logistics of that whole process, that business model and finessing the details, clear your strategic partners. Right now we're going to structure this how we're going to incentivize the customer base. How do we build the team internally?

[00:10:57] I think that some some of this that I've seen is the actual sort of service strategy or the design strategy ends up being so kind of multi-channel that it's no longer just about, well, I'm going to drive someone to a website. They're gonna go through the right and order and they're going to check out they're going to get an email confirming a you know, no, it's I'm gonna I'm going to be exposed to the brand via one of social media. Then I may go to a store.

[00:11:21] Then I may go to an event. And then I meet and they get on line.

[00:11:26] And then I may see a sales associate for a purchase.

[00:11:29] And, you know, it's so kind of multi touchpoint multi-channel now, you know, thinking through that high level strategy and figuring out who my kind of personas or who my target customers are and how they're going to interact.

[00:11:41] It does require a fairly multifaceted professional, or at least it does look at it businesses.

[00:11:47] It does. And different professionals understand different aspects of it, too. Right. So beyond just first stage, let's say, of research and then establishing some strategy and then ideation or product, developing the design of the product and then not even the product product development and the production piece of it.

[00:12:04] There are different aspects where there some innovation leaders who understand maybe internal challenge as well as customer base as well as logistics. There are different customers that may understand different markets. Maybe some innovation specialist understands the fintech space where versus the CPG and then some that understand across that just enterprise scale business. Right. There are certain types of professionals that understand building it at an enterprise level. Massive. We're talking major massive corporations. That's like moving a massive cruise liner. Right. How do you shift a piece of that to go forage and buy new business?

[00:12:44] Do you find that the talent is kind of divided into these categories of kind of good, general, abstract, creative, strategic thinkers that can kind of think think across channel, across technology? And even if new technologies also sort of pop into the mix, they're able to kind of figure them out digested and work them in the model. So you've got kind of the generalist strategic high level thinkers and then these more kind of domain technology focused uber experts. Where are they? You know, they know how to really kind of work in social media or worse particular type of transaction environment as it's defined. There's two different types. How does the talent market, for example?

[00:13:26] It's interesting. It's you know what? So. On the talent side. So let me just say that I've founded two businesses through recruitment, and I was a designer for about 10 years before I got to be a recruiter and then built a recruitment firm business around this, because in this space of design strategy, innovation, it's really hard for businesses to align with talent. And I think that there's a disconnect right now. So there's let me just turn to the talent and talk about them so that employers can understand. How do you how do you decide? How do you invest? What kind of experts do you bring in right now in this space? It is very much driven by what people are drawn to their own experiences. And everybody has a different type of, let's say, a combination of optics. You know, if you go to the eye doctor, you know, some people can see broad picture you put in those different lenses. Right. Everybody has not just you know, when we talked about different design leaders, let's say they all have a certain range of broad vision across systems, across talent, internally, across understanding a certain market. Some of them will, under some leaders, understand enterprise skill challenges, but yet they may understand digital. Right. So then there's that combination and they can jump. By the way, there are some phenomenal leaders who can all of a sudden work in the CBD, you know, consumer product packaging space.

[00:14:50] Right. All of a sudden solving a different problem in the finance digital space. There are different leaders who can understand enterprise scale. How do you build innovation on that level, but also can understand startup scale? It's you know, it's you can't. The problem with this is and there's so many software's out there now that profess to solve identifying talent. You can't you just there's no way that this is the biggest problem right now. There's so many talented people out there not. Seen through these software systems. Right. Because when you look at innovation, we could have, you know, the type of optics each type of visionary leader has or type of talent would have that someone could be really great at understanding digital services and understanding those problems on a grand scale. But they could also turn around and understand how that problem affects customer engagement right at that point of meeting the customer. But then also they they could understand the challenges of a product right now. Some people can understand very broad scale. So there isn't. You know, you can't just say someone understands big picture thinking across the whole spectrum of what a business has to analyze. Some people are really great at that, but they can also dive in deep. Some people stay high level. Right. It's interesting.

[00:16:08] So you mentioned this this issue that, you know, the software systems, the talent software systems, recruiting systems or the know, although all the different kind of sites.

[00:16:17] And and they are in everything that now people are applying to trying to find you scrub resonates and linked in and things like that. And then to acquire talent. So where where do these things not work or where where do they fall short in terms of really being able to identify sort of innovation professionals?

[00:16:35] And, you know, when you're kind of looking at recruiting or looking at, you know, finding talent. Where did the systems not work and where does working with someone like you really kind of add a lot of value?

[00:16:46] I think that people forget that business is human. Business is built around teams of individuals, right? Yeah. And teams of individuals. It affects how they develop, you know. OK, here's a wonderful analogy, Jim, to watch. You know, when you watch bands. Right, musical bands. And you know those historical bands like Genesis. Right, with Phil Collins. Right. You have different musicians that come in. You can hear here's a perfect analogy. You can hear when the teams of musicians, when the group of musicians are so in sync, they could be incredibly talented. But if they don't culturally connect, you can hear the disconnect, right? You can hear the style, the pacing different. You can hear that. So what business? It's much more complex to think about. It's not just five people. Right. It's hundreds of people. And how they build innovation together. There's an absolute human component to it. I can literally have three corporations come to me with almost identical specs of what they look for. In fact, it's happened where in one enterprise, one massive corporation, we've had different departments, same same title, but based on their team, based on the leader with the corporate know, the CEO, the C suite, the head of that, let's say within these three divisions, actually, let's look at the hiring manager. Right. What does each hiring manager want? What are they looking for? So if you're a business owner, same thing. What is it that you need for talent? Right. Is very much based on who you are, what you're you know, what's going to grow under you. Who's going to support your vision best? So this ties in. There's a combination here of people. Right. Who's the owner? Who's a hiring manager and what is it? What is your strength? What is your weakness? What is your passion? And aligning the right kind of person underneath that hiring manager to support them? For them to grow and scale. Yeah.

[00:18:53] So when you when you work with a company that's looking to bring on new talent. How do you deal or how do you kind of understand or strategize around that kind of team aspect?

[00:19:02] I mean, I like the band analogy. And, you know, it's very much a synergy between the folks that are there. You know, if someone if someone calls you saying, hey, look, I'm looking for a new lead guitarist. Like, what's your process for figuring out? Yeah. Who would make a dent, you know, beyond just the technical skills? I mean, you could see you can kind of map out the technical stuff, but how do you deal with the more cultural export?

[00:19:22] We have to listen to that where they want to go. Right. So again, everybody says, wow, we want this to be amazing when you realize what are they looking to adjust because what a lot of business owners are. So we plays talent in agencies. We plays talent and big corporations. And when we analyze what that company needs, we think about really how far do they really need to go and how far do they want? Where how far do they want to go? It's relative again. You know, what they want to achieve is relative. Right. And for some companies, transformation could be adjusting a subtlety to it, to a sound. Right, adding something else to the product line where maybe they have different businesses. They have a service business or whether they have a product business. Is it a massive shift that they're looking for? And with that massive shift, there's a great deal of investment, not just in bringing in that person onboard, but in changing your company culture, the structure of the business. How are you going to cost money to change? Right to innovate and in fact, most businesses we find they profess to want innovation, but maybe the cost of innovation really is more than what they're willing to do, right? Basically, we all want change, but to change is harder than you think. No, wait. I'm gonna have to retrain, train all my you know, maybe I have to change out half of my product development team. Or do I have to retrain my sales people? If I'm going to develop a higher quality product and service to a client, to a customer base, do I have to retrain my sales team, my engagement team, my finance team? Because at every point they're going to be meeting up with my customer right now. We're gonna build a different product. People don't realize how it affects every stage of the business. Right.

[00:21:04] Do you ever find that as you start consulting with a client or you start with them on their kind of talent strategy or figuring out how to solve their talent needs, that they're saying one thing.

[00:21:13] But in terms of what when you're assessing people are and you're gonna have to say, I think we need to rethink this or advise again on just even how much they should bite off on this whole thing.

[00:21:25] Absolutely. So we'll talk about we'll follow their lead and we'll say, OK, great. You want to go this far and then we'll educate them on what Snead and a lot of times companies will say, we want one individual because they really want to and they're ready to push innovation, you know, really find blue sky and build a new business. And in fact, they all want to do this within a year. Right. They want to identify new avenues of business, build the structure of it, and start filling it.

[00:21:52] And so start selling the product immediately, whether it's a service, whether it's a product, whether it's changing culture. Right. It's not always possible in order to do that. There's a lot you have to get ready. Right. Will indicate what's needed outside of just finding that. Right individuals. And we look to see how ready they are to do it. Right. Are they really? Do they have you know, is don't know. Is their money where their mouth is? Right. Where are they really ready to build it outside of just finding that one person? And it's interesting. We've seen so many different companies invest in innovation. We've seen different ways that companies build it in. It takes time because there are different experts out there that can speak the language that that owner can or that hiring manager that corporation can understand. Sometimes they do need to see it again and again being in this business for more than 15 years. Now we've seen companies go through phases of trying innovations.

[00:22:47] Well, I was going to say good. I'm just drawing some parallels to my experiences in technology when I started in the lean, agile software development space and so early, early in the kind of adoption of lean by the technology industry.

[00:23:00] You know, a lot of companies where we're coming out of saying, hey, we want to we want to build a, you know, a super lean, super agile team, you know, go find us a bunch of folks that we can bring into the company and we look at them and say, look, you are probably the least leave me.

[00:23:19] And the fact is, is, you know, you don't have a culture that's going to attract those kind of folks. Even if we can find really acceptable professionals, you know, leaders in the lean adult space, they're just not interested in working in a context that you're on because it's not you know, yes, they want to be and they want to be surrounded by other really kind of lean forward thinking businesses.

[00:23:40] And if you're kind of stuck, you know, 20 years ago in terms of how things operate. So there's almost dead before you even talk about ringing. Yeah, you need to kind of re we kind of almost reconfigure redesigned the culture and the how, you know, the operations and reporting structures, all those kind of stuff. So, you know, oftentimes, yeah, I found on tap that, you know, it may start with this kind of talent issue and it would really become a cultural operations issue like we needed update. Yeah, the culture before we could even upgrade talent.

[00:24:08] So I think, you know, from similar challenges in your space. Bruce absolutely right. Companies. I think what we're starting to find out now when we look at companies, it doesn't matter. By the way, this issue affects every size of business, whether you're a small business to a mid-sized corporation or a couple million to billion dollar businesses. Huge enterprise scale, right. What you're you're keying in on there. Right there. Is that again. Culture is key culture and making sure that how you've built this corporation, the way it's functioning, that it's ready to take off on building something better. Right. Let's talk about that. We have a lot of companies that come to us. And when we look at really what they're offering. Well, let's say in the space of innovation, there's certain things that you need to know about how you need to support it. And this is one of those challenging spaces. I will tell you, we're almost just as many of the employers. You know those. So I'm going to love you. You're going to laugh about this. You know that. Do you ever watch that reality show, Millionaire Matchmaker?

[00:25:11] Yeah, it's been on for years. So the premise of this is someone's got millions of dollars. They think they're amazing. They're going to find the, you know, the woman of their dreams. Right. And the. Expert matchmaker. She turns to them, says, look, just because you've made it in one way doesn't mean that you're perfect yet. There are other things you need to do to be eligible for someone, right. And so the same thing with business, whether it's how big you are, how much revenue you've made, it doesn't mean that you're necessarily ready for a certain type of innovation. Because when we do bring in innovation leaders to the table, especially people who have proven themselves, they have moved mountains, they have transformed corporations. Right. They've built avenues of business for companies and millions and millions of dollars. And for them to do this again, they need to have a corporation that's ready and they need to have a company that's ready.

[00:26:02] And by the way, this is a space where this has always been an issue. But this is not isolated to just innovation for any business to bring on quality talent of any space. The people who are really clear, who are really visionary, they have a method. Let's say in some ways there are high experts right now for them to pull together an orchestration of different teams and people, internal resources, external understand the technical logistics, the cultural challenges in our business model issues. Right. There's a lot there's a lot of components there. They're very complex. Right. And what they can solve for them to do this, they're going to go back and scrutinize the employer, the corporation that wants this kind of change. And this is the thing that we find that we've got to prepare a lot of employers and corporations for is are you are you ready? Because these are the questions you're going to get kicked back. Right.

[00:26:55] Well, I think it was you know, I'm sorry. I've certainly seen in technology where, you know, some company that really wants to change, they hire, you know, some super successful person. They feel they give them a senior role.

[00:27:05] And then nine months later, that person's leaving because, you know, regardless of their ideas are how, you know, how much they want to kind of change things at the organization. The other is the true leadership and the true cultural. The organization is not really up for change. You know, it will it will get very frustrated, basically. So it's financially can be a huge waste of time and money. But more importantly, I think it's unfortunate.

[00:27:28] Yes. So I'm gonna talk about some things you are seeing now, and particularly in enterprise scale corporations, you are seeing turnover faster and faster. Right. I don't know how many times we hear from people in the industry. And when we talk, a lot of people will talk to us and tell us what's going on.

[00:27:45] If there are, you know, see sweets changing in and out faster and faster, I think that there is a mis direction of attention towards quarterly goals.

[00:27:57] You know, I mean, when you are looking at building a business, you do not you need to have your short term goals. But I think corporations are now losing sight of the long term goals and what it takes to really build true innovation. Right. You have to really understand what it takes. I think that the metrics they're using are too short sighted. And as a result, you hear too many companies where the C suite is being changed out too fast.

[00:28:21] In fact, on every level we see, look at look at talent retention in general. There are issues there now where, you know, if you look at people's career timeline, most people are not staying in companies, but in fact, their retention is a challenge, right? Employer. It used to be 10 years or 20 years and way, way back. Right now, it's not even two years. People are changing out within years. And what we're noticing that it's not because we worked with both employers, but we also in our executive coaching, we work with talent where we're talking high level people.

[00:28:55] Right. And let me tell you that when we have those one on one conversations, both the talent tells us we want to stay. I want to stay and grow and keep evolving this company, because I want to build something. I want to make a lasting impression and change radically change right this company and improve it. And then the employers talent turned to us and say, we need this person to stay because they we've spent so much time for them to understand the inner workings of this business. And we now know how complicated business is. Right. Takes time for someone to come and join this company to understand every aspect of what's holding them back. But yes, the crazy thing is there's this phenomenal trend where the turnover is so fast right now. Attention is one of the biggest challenges. And I think that just there's a swing right now in business. There's this fascination with startups and new and just try all over again.

[00:29:45] But there is a piece of this where now we're finally seeing corporations that understand you need to spend time to invest in the long haul. It's both business as well as on talent is is about understanding your culture and how it's evolving.

[00:30:02] Right. Yeah. Ideology focuses on the company looking for talent. Talk to us a little bit more about product fraud by design, which is the executive. So this is working to fill in developing capabilities in their career. Tell us about that a little bit more and how you're working with the talent side.

[00:30:17] Sure. So it actually began about 10 years ago. We had.

[00:30:21] Know all these top leading innovation leaders, directors, BP, and we would see what they were capable of and we would explain this to the employee. But sometimes a candidate didn't know how to explain it. If I can, I can see where someone needs to go and I can tell it to the employer and they can see it. That doesn't matter if the candidate doesn't see it right. We once had someone who is phenomenal and famous. The industry knew about him. He was lecturing. He was well known. We knew what he could be capable of next. In changing for a company. Right. And we know he went through to the client. He met with them. In fact, not just our client. This gentleman actually met with so many different companies and he couldn't see what he was capable of. He couldn't articulate it. And so that he got stuck. We have some people where they know where they want to go, but the businesses don't understand it and not understand exactly which direction they want to go with. We have some leaders where they don't know if they want to build their own enterprise or that they want to work for a massive corporation or they want to switch industries.

[00:31:26] We're starting to see that now. We're on in a different way. Let's remember what we talked about, how years ago we would. Talent would stay at a company 10, 20 years. While on the talent side, we now have so many choices. Right. No longer are we shackled with having to stay in one now career. But now here's the challenge where got incredibly talented people but are too many choices. Which direction you can give it to, right? So now we are helping professionals realize where a lot of their many gifts are the most effective and where can it play best? And then how do you monetize on it? You know, so many people in this world still want to do because there's so much self-awareness today. Everybody wants to work on something that they are driven by Frye and Line where they're not just taking home a paycheck. And we're helping executives and high level professionals take it to the next level because we want what people don't talk about is most people who pivot, they pivot. And they a lot of people that they don't have a strategy around it. They can pivot and they can fail.

[00:32:32] Yeah, there's a there's a difference between flailing and pivoting. Yes. They're confused.

[00:32:39] Yeah. A lot of things we hear a lot of people come to us say, you know, I wanted to diversify. I decided I was going to go from you Y, you X to go into service, design or understand building a corporation, you know, operationally or logistics or whatever direction they choose to go in. They want to diversify. And a lot of times you find people have diversified in the wrong direction. You get stuck in a different place and they can't do. A lot of times they talk about backtracking back isn't the necessary the right way either. Again, there's there's no system out there now that we found for a while. We found that there were nose solutions for people. We would send people out to different, you know, life coaches, career coaches, business coaches, and, you know, for operations and business models. We would bring them to you, by the way. But if it was about finding their gift, you know where they could thrive, they would come back. We started to realize that we had to help them. It's been about 10 years working with people privately, and we now have a proven method to help people quick in speed. That process of iteration, because when you're in your 10, 20 years into your career, you cannot just you know, when you're in college, you get to just randomly pick things. Right. And when you're 20, 10, 20 years and you've got reputation, you've got status, you've got family, you've got mortgage, how do you pivot strategically and make sure that that next mountain that you kind of know that Tarzan, that rope that you swing over to that analogy, most people there are challenges right away. If I switch to another mountain, do we lose traction? Can I swing even higher? And keep in mind, not lose momentum. Right. That's there's a method that we've developed that helps people pivot. Right.

[00:34:20] If people wanna find out more about you, what do you do with companies and their talent strategy and talent acquisition or by design in terms of your coaching presence?

[00:34:30] What's the best way to get that information for recruitment and for employer? There's an companies that want to understand how to invest in talent. It's w w w yay ideology dot coms.

[00:34:41] That's y e h i d e o l o g y dot com. And for executives and professionals who want to pivot and really make that pivot successful within a year's time. That's w w w thrive by design dot today thrive by design.

[00:34:58] Today I'll make sure that both of those links are in show notes so people can click through and get them. Angela, this has been a pleasure. Thank you so much for taking the time. Great conversation. I think everyone here learned a lot.

[00:35:08] Thanks for this. Thanks for having it. Real appreciate it. Good luck to you and your programs.

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