Mark Fisher, Speaker, Consultant, Entrepreneur, Ninja Master
Mark has a B.F.A. from Syracuse University, is a former professional actor and has spent several years serving on the Advisory Board for New York City Center’s Off-Center. Mark is also a co-founder and Board Member of The Uprising NYC, an innovative nonprofit devoted to empowering people to become engaged and informed citizens. He is a proud member of the Entrepreneurs’ Organization.
https://www.businessforunicorns.com/
https://www.markfisherhumanbeing.com/
https://markfisherfitness.com/
instagram.com/mffclubhouse/
AUTOMATED EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:01] You're listening to Scaling Up Services where we speak with entrepreneurs authors business experts and thought leaders to give you the knowledge and insights you need to scale your service based business faster and easier. And now here is your host Business Coach Bruce Eckfeldt.
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[00:00:55] This is Scaling up Services. I'm Bruce Eckfeldt. I'm your host. And our guest today is Mark Fisher. He is a small business owner. He's with Mark Fisher Fitness, as well as a business called The Business for Unicorns. And looking at gyms and gym facilities and how the fitness industry has been evolving and changing. We're gonna talk to him a little bit about how he's approached the fitness industry, his insights, and how he's not only built his own company, but helped other companies figure out their strategy, their positioning. And we're going to talk a little bit about what's going on. The fitness industry given covered 19.
[00:01:27] We're recording this mid April. So we're kind of in the I'd like to see in the middle we'll sort of see where we land in terms of timeframe. But we're in the middle of giving 19. And obviously, it's impacting everyone. But we're gonna talk a little bit about what Mark is seeing in the fitness industry in terms of responses, as well as what the impact is going to be in the long term. So with that Mark. Welcome to the program. Thanks so much for having me. So why don't we start with background to understand a little bit of your experience, how you got into the fitness industry. I love. I've heard your story a couple of different times, but I'd love to have you just tell the audience the path that you've been on, the journey that you've been on to get to where you are today, because there's some interesting steps along it.
[00:02:04] Yeah. Very unusual path to entrepreneurship, that is for sure. So I'll offer the relatively highlighted versions that we can get a content. But essentially, as you mentioned, I own a brick and mortar brand in York City called Mark Fisher Fitness. I would say very briefly, it's worth understanding. It's a very unusual brand. So if anyone listening is curious to see things they can't unsee. They go to if they go to Mark Fisher Fitness dot com, they will see it is pink and are unicorns and it is glittery. We call our clients ninjas. We don't call it a gym. We call our homes the enchanted ninja clubhouses of glory and dreams. And our tagline is ridiculous humans, serious fitness. So the brand is very reverent. We specialize in people that hate and or are afraid of gyms, which is why we don't even use the term gym called a club house. And we're also very rigorous about training. We're also super evidence based science nerds that in addition to working people that maybe don't identify as gym people, want to give them a great experience, great customer service, great product, great program design, get results. And this unusual brand was largely borne out. As you get to my unusual background, which is as essentially a Broadway rapper, G. So I had spent my 20s in New York City as a performer doing a lot, specifically musical theater, a little bit TV and film as well. And I quite loved it. But like many people that were actors, I need to do some things to fill in the gaps side.
[00:03:29] And I really got into personal training and, you know, my throughout my 20s at a great time because particularly in my late 20s, I had a modicum of success as an actor. I wasn't crushing it by any means financially, but I was like doing pretty well. I was working consistently. But I had this other thing that I really, really loved. It really loved training. I was generally passion about it was not a thing I was suffering through or so I was a pretty happy guy with these two parallel careers. And then the long and short of it is I kind of reached a certain point in my life where I didn't want to be leaving town anymore. And almost on a whim. This would've been the summer of 2010. I had heard some mentor figure and I can't isolate who this was, but I had heard of someone that was reading two books a week, and I had always been a very voracious reader. But when I heard that for some reason, that moment, it really inspired me. I was now looking to stay in town, so I decided I'll read one book a week on training for my training career and I'll read one book a week on business, which at the time I thought was for my acting career, exacting as a business, you know, and in retrospect, very strange. So I look back on that first year in my head, of course, I'm reading business books for my acting career and I'm reading like math and good grade and all these books that are hilarious.
[00:04:35] Meanwhile, like a personal trainer, you know, like I've just developed the quirky brand of that plane. I started like a newsletter that I put my friends and family on and then read to make a long story short, because the brand was so centric and because I really started putting to work, I think some went into entrepreneur interest and talents and combining it with a real deep love and passion, learning about all the tools one needs when you start a business on your own. Mark Fisher finace kind of became a thing. And we we grew pretty quickly and we were on the INC five hundred as one of the fast growing companies in America. And then that led to a lot of local and national press, both in fitness and in the business press. And then that led to opportunities for us to start talking about MLS, of course, because what we do is unusual. And for finished businesses, we were having success at an unusual scale. And that's what the help is for Unicorn. Was born, so in addition to running MLS on a day to day basis, this other business I have with my partner, Michael, you know, who's my best friend from high school who I often call my non-sexual life partner. That is our our other business. And that is the brand under which we do the coaching we offer. We offer courses on everything from customer service to time management and also where I do most of my speaking, which until the world pause was something I spent about a third of my time doing, being on the road and speaking at various organizations and conferences and business for you unicorn's is for people in the fitness industry.
[00:05:54] You know, it's not technically so. We have we have a coaching group called the Unicorn Society, and that is for not just fitness, specifically for brick and mortar fitness studio. That's what we know. So, like, that's the world. We do like ongoing coaching. But the courses, because they're not industry specific. It's interesting being in New York City. We actually have started develop some other ones, a strange cause, awesome, but surprising niches. So princes are in management courses like for some reason I'm really hot in a lot of real estate circles. So and then in addition to that, you also do a fair amount of Mercers consulting where a company might hire us to come in for six months or a year to work on some sort of outcomes that they're looking for. So this unicorn's is really a little bit of a hodgepodge and we certainly do plenty and fitness. That's the world we come from. But as we know any you know, a lot of service stuff, it's a lot of it is broadly applicable. So it gives Michael Knight some variety. And Michael particular loves to really sort of spread his wings. I can be a I'm kind of happy my fitness industry, little corner. But we also like the challenges of thinking, putting our heads, the interesting challenges outside the world that we know.
[00:06:58] You know, it's interesting. You know, I love the when a business kind of takes a core capability or an insight or knowledge, they have data. They haven't figure out how to apply it to other areas. Let's talk a little bit about kind of the journey, because I'm always curious about kind of your entrepreneurial background. I mean, did you have anyone in your life early that kind of gave you a model for being a business owner, for being an entrepreneur? Was this I guess, did you think of yourself as an entrepreneur?
[00:07:21] When did you realize you were a business owner? And how did that change from a mindset point of view and what you had to focus on?
[00:07:27] Yeah, you know, I didn't really have any models of growing up. I didn't know anybody that was a business owner. I will say I was always drawn to, I think, thinking myself as a business person and even in my 20s in acting, I really was just interested in the entrepreneur elements of that business. Now, certainly your product and acting, of course, is is so separates art. Of course, that business is a very strange, challenging, unique business as far as the way one has to go through gatekeepers and develop networks. And just the law of supply and demand is really just not in your favor as an act, which is part of my ultimate Lactococcus. I learned about business. I was like, and this is for the birds. There's other opportunities. Huge. So throughout my 20s, you know, there were few moments where small groups of friends we would like to think of, like what in retrospect was a wonderful, hilariously charming embryonic business idea.
[00:08:18] But nothing ever quite came of that. I did discover my early 20s as an actor that I was very good at sales for while I actually worked on the street as one of those obnoxious people in New York that stop women and ask them a question about their hair to then sell them a hair products. And I discovered I had Sir so Pontac to that. But this was an interesting Oscar lesson because I was amazing at it. And for like two months, I went away to do my first show. I came back and then upon returning, I discovered that the whole thing was a racket because, yes, the value for what I was selling was amazing. But once you get in there, it's as high pressure sales experience. Many women had very bad experiences. And as soon as I didn't believe in the product anymore, I quit within a week. I couldn't sell anything. So I went from being this like some bob, like super closer to like I can't sell anything. I get another job. The rest were were even less glamorous than selling hair salon promotion on the street. So that was mostly my relationship with entrepreneurship throughout my 20s. I was very surprising. I took to it the way that I did. But I think what appealed to me about entrepreneurship to this day and I think was true for me even as an actor in my 20s. And part of what made acting very challenging as I like the idea of like aggressively helping as many people you can, developing skills like working on growing learning, developing your potential, and then using it to make other people's lives better. And then a certain percentage of those individuals will actually be able to make more money and give you some of that money out of banks. I think that's awesome. Real's me now. That's kind of how we landed here.
[00:09:45] Yeah. And any other sort of skills or things that you realize you did particularly well or had a knack for that served you well when you moved into, you know, the business side of you, when you became an entrepreneur or when you when you looked at kind of focusing on the business side of this rather than the acting side of the things that you realized, you know, we're helpful for you and then maybe other things that you realized you had to let go or or now focus on as much.
[00:10:07] Yeah, I think certainly one of my orthopedic Ken jokes is that I was prepared to be very successful as a gym owner because I went back to your fine arts and musical theater. And that is something I really mean. I literally mean that there were so many skills I learned in. Actor, because acting really is just a study of the human experience, and if you think about all of business, particularly beginning when I wore every hat. I'm still very involved in the marketing functions. Marketing is really about entering the conversation that's already going on. Individuals head. So as an actor, it was very intuitive, me from day one. In a way that when I looked at other people, certainly in the fitness industry at times I can tell, like, oh, you're a trainer and you love training and you like to talk with the stuff you like. But for me, I was always so clear, like who my friends were, who I want to help. What was bothering them was pressuring them. What might excite them would make them laugh. And I think being an actor was great preparation for that. And I think management is also very much served by being an actor because you have to really think through. I think to be a good manager emotionally, it's important to think of the second, third or the consequences of decisions you make, what sort of impact it's going to have an individual's.
[00:11:12] Admittedly, that is certainly something I think I'm probably gonna feel ever apprentice at. But I think the last thing that was very useful, I brought into this, which I had been a huge benefit to me, and I feel like every entrepreneur, almost every human benefits from was having a lot of experience speaking in front of lots of people. So for me, my flow state is a lot of people looking me because in my twenties I just got in so many reps. That was what I did professionally when I was in class was an actor and I was quite comfortable with a lot of people looking at me. So whether it has been using that, when I was a trainer and I was teaching classes of people, that was a kind of performance or in sales conversations, being able to speak well and thoughtfully with passion about whatever it is you're offering for an individual. And certainly what I do now, a lot of it is speaking and feels like in many ways that's when I feel like, oh, wow, came my life weird. The kind of makes sense now. Kind of full circle to everything. Yeah. Because even in my twenties, the other thing, it's hilarious and when and great.
[00:12:10] But at one point I was also going back to school to get a masters in philosophy because I want to get a doctor in clinical psychology so, so interested in psychology and philosophy and the way the brain works and how humans aspire to live fulfilled and effective life. That for me, all of those things actually come together in entrepreneurship because even running a business for me, the great gift is you get to in many ways create the city you want to live in. So this opportunity to create a community of people and together get clear on the things that matter to you, get explicit about those values, and then through a process of difficult conversations, you know, learn more. Develop yourselves by learning about yourself. Learning about each other. Learning about the way the world works. You know, for me, that is certainly exhausting. Like many people is a lot. But for me, that that's kind of the whole of that. Right. Like, I'm as interested in that as I am about creating great products and service for people that work with us. I'm so interested in the way a work community can be, a sharpening store for one to turn for you to become closer to who you most want to be.
[00:13:13] You know, I love that. Let's talk about MFM, because I think that you mentioned that it's not your normal gym. In fact, you know, you don't call it a gym, but it is you know, it's unique and it's different. And I've been to a class or two so I can speak from personal experience. But how did you go from, you know, creating something that is really different and really stands out, but also, you know, is an addressable market, you know, as you know, is not so unique that no one's interested in doing. Like, how do you balance that kind of. How did you balance that kind of what is our customer that we want to do business with? How do we identify who they are? How do we create a brand? How do we create a position around this and really a culture around this that is going to resonate. Tell me about that process was every clear from the outset. Was there a lot of kind of figuring it out? What kind of decisions did you have to make? Because it is it's a pretty unique experience from a chromite user point of view, from a customer point of view.
[00:14:03] Yeah, I think it was definitely, you know, a little bit of luck and a little bit of instinct. And then over time, you know, like all business systems, there's this process of taking this thing that first there's organic, untold artistic, and then trying to reverse engineer what worked and then create some systems around it without sucking the humanity out of bed. In the beginning, it was very simple because first one the beginning, and this is the thing that I think is such a testament to the people we brought on. Is it really an asset? To some extent? Still is a personal brand. It's called marketers or fitness. There's things about that that are horrible and we'll always bottom. But having said that, in spite of 2011, he was really just me. So really, I was doing all the classes, all the coaching. We brought in our first trainer towards the end of the year. In 2011, we went from just me to like four trainers are 2012. And then within a year and a half, two years, I wasn't doing most of the training. Most the training was being done by other individuals. So I think that I think has been interesting thing to figure out and was an interesting transition. And again, I really say is a testament to both good decision making on mine and Michael's part and the dumb luck of just finding people that were dynamic, that were their own person, that we're able to do their version of this unique approach to fitness, which is you mentioned. Not normal, right? There's a lot of profanity and people might wear weird outfits and, you know, they might be hedges. So I'll leave it at that.
[00:15:28] Exactly. You've got to watch the videos or don't. Don't.
[00:15:34] So, you know, that I think was interesting building out like a team and it's just them and some capacity, because for me, you know, and this has been, I think, an ongoing thing I think I'm still working on, frankly. Is this the thing where I like the idea we can leverage a personal brand? Because I like the idea that people want to work with a person and not a business. I'm pretty good at being an ambassador. I'm good at being like, quote unquote, the dancing monkey. So it made sense to leverage me as this not a character, because it's meets like authentic. Like I like pretending to be somebody. But the emails come in the very specific voice and a lot of video content is about me. But a lot of the day to day like execution and the training stuff, other people do that and do that, frankly, better than I do. Right. So I think that's my thing to figure out. Speaking to branding and marketing, because it was me in the beginning, it was literally just I'm going to train my friends and particular beginning. It was very much a child of the Broadway community. So we had this really cool niche in the Broadway world. And then I think over first two to three years, we still train a lot of Broadway people. But in spite of the fact we're often covered in the press and known as being the Broadway place, it's actually much more robust community.
[00:16:42] We always say it's the end. I mean, this and most affection way, the Isle of Misfit toys. Yeah. Whereas basically, like, you know, it's the theater kids that it was also the marching band and the skate punks and the math club and the kids, they're sexually active a little bit too early. And you know, so like all the children that ate lunch alone, one day, middle school all fit in at market fitness. And then, you know, you both have a tipping point in the beginning, which again, was part what. But also we worked hard, I think made a cool thing. We created this, like tipping point, I think, of this core group of people that drove a lot of word of mouth. And then, of course, has Emma Pop has matured like any business, if you're really looking to scale your business. You can't indefinitely rely on just word of mouth at a certain point. You need to be able to actually pull some levers, spend some money in marketing and proactively grow your business, not just like hope the people will show up. And I think that's certainly something depending on one's vision that you can do. If it's a more like a artisan approach or where you're a contractor or a craftsman. There's certainly nothing wrong with that. But I just I wanted to a bigger business. I wanted some scale. And what happened was that the past few years, we had to actually figure out how to get good at a lot of stuff that we were able to get away with not being great at the first couple of years because the first couple of years it was like all word of mouth.
[00:17:56] And it really wasn't till a couple years ago to one day I was like, huh, we don't really actually have a very good market. Feel like we're spending for Facebook ads. And it's interesting because the reality is a lot of it was not actually rocket science. I actually a bit strange. I had to go back in the fitness industry and study that. OK, well, what are you. I was always a student of the principles of marketing, but there was a moment I had a real learning curve has figured, okay, well, how does this work in the fitness industry? How does this work in York City? What sort of like messaging and ads do we need that are going to create a funnel where people first know as they opt into a lead magnet? What sort of marketing over time nurtures that relationship? What sort of offers can we make when they don't know? Is that well yet to give us a chance of we can get in there and really develop that relationship. And again, these are the things that are applicable to any business. But it is interesting because in full disclosure, the first couple years we got by on just being Looney Tunes, you novel and being great at what we did.
[00:18:48] But in some ways, of course, I almost find it more satisfying the past few years where we actually had to use some actual business acumen and not just rely on the fact that people loved this and told their friends, which they still do not appreciate, but is not the most sustainable business yet.
[00:19:03] And I find that along with service companies, is that it ends up becoming very much a culture of the owner or that, you know, the founder and it's very kind of word of mouth and they reach kind of a ceiling or a cap on either growth or growth rate. And then you really need to start looking at other systems, other strategies. And I like the idea of going back and looking at the industry. Make us when you looked at the industry and how the industry did a lot of these things. Were there things that you were like, okay, that's good, that could work for us? And then other things that were like like I get that worked for other companies, but that's not going to fit with our business and our culture.
[00:19:35] Were there things that I should. Yeah, I think so. You know, I think a lot of you know, again, the basics are always the basics. I think the principles were there were a lot of particular tactics because the fitness industry has a reputation.
[00:19:48] And I think this is I hope is getting better. You can tell me of being a place that was how a lot of really high pressure sales tactics and things that, you know, a lot of us are just not stoked about, particularly in this industry, really to help people in this wasn't, you know, a misguided attempt to make money, because in order to make money, you made a mistake. You're that friend. Terrible mistake. And you know, that said, I am pretty Ignacio's. So my kind of M.O., whenever there's like a thing that I don't have the answer to. I just try to figure out, OK, well, who were like top like 20 people doing this? And I'll just read every book take. Of course, quote, every conference, make a spreadsheet. And then literally analyze all of their funnels, right. And again, it's all kind of the same stuff. But what's been useful about that, too, is, of course, I also teach this stuff. So that was other than the one being very valid.
[00:20:33] Of course, I feel like I'm a much better coach and supports my clients because not only do I know what's worked for Mark Fisher Fitness, but now we've got there's a few different things I've seen work because fitness is interesting, different markets. You kind of see everything, work everywhere. And I've seen everything, not work everywhere. And of course, you know, it's human nature, I think, to want to give absolutes. But so, you know, the only thing I think that really kind of turned me off. I do think there are some things in the fitness industry that work really well that for me, I think are unethical. And I've been very you know, and I mean that with so much love. And I understand the individuals that push a lot of stuff.
[00:21:10] I think what becomes insidious, which is just not a values fit for me, is when the ends justify the means. It's like, well, I can say this thing, it's technically a lie, but but once I get him in there, then I'm going to help them. OK. In particular with fitness, because we if you think about the marketing and sales fall for fitness, you are going to be oftentimes pushing on some pain points. Now, if you have a low ticket model and people just signing up for your gym and just open access and, you know, it's, you know, maybe a 40 dollar gym and a lot of the country or maybe you're in New York and it's 100, 150, but that doesn't represent a lot of discretionary income of those individuals. Well, you might not even need much of a sales process. They just they're running you almost as a commodity. Now, I don't think that's the type of relationship I'm interested in with people I work with. But it's there's certainly nothing wrong with that. Once you're dealing with these relatively higher ticket offerings, surfer context, MF Fouth in York City, we are average revenue per ninja is around like to 80 to 90 per month.
[00:22:05] So, you know, not the most expensive, but but not cheap. I mean. But that type of marketing and sales process, you really need to not only get a chance to really for people to trust you, but usually people making that kind of purchase. There's some really driving need or something they really want. They don't have that. They think if they make this investment, you can help. So that opens up, I think, unfortunately, in the fitness industry, a possibility for certain individuals who, again, I I don't think are bad people to play a little fast and loose with what they're doing as far as pulling pain points, because for me, it's pretty simple. The thing is, I just don't lie. It's like for me it's like manufactured scares, like, oh, you know, OK, well, looks like there's one open tomorrow night for an appointment, but that's it. And there's no more for two weeks, you know. OK, well that's that's a lie right now. And I think a lot about ethics in marketing and the fitness industry, like all the insurers. I'm sure there's a lot of well, there's some interesting stuff that goes on there sometimes.
[00:23:02] Yeah, very. Right. And how have you. Let's talk about business. Business for unicorn's in terms of how you've leveraged the learning from MSF. And I guess what is your intent with Business of Unicorn's? What are you hoping to do? Who do you serve? And then how is that business going to play now?
[00:23:17] That's been interesting. So we have a few different things we offer under the Busfield conference banner. So certainly my speaking stuff is under that, which is granular form about the business. Right. Sometimes that is lucrative in and of itself and sometimes it's a profit center. And sometimes that, of course, is an opportunity to develop a network, develop leads and really do some business development for people that will later hire us to do other things. The main things that people hire us for are we offer courses which and again, this is whole is about all of this, because I'm hoping to wrap up. I'm like, well, this what it was a month ago. Who knows what's gonna be like in a month. But this is what it was. So we offer courses about like every six to eight weeks on specific topics. And a lot of people certainly know it's from fitness. So it's a lot of Nunnally. Gym owners bid people to have online fitness brands and personal trainers. And more and more, I've been working with like larger corporate structures and like bigger businesses. So but also people that are in other industries that either know me and Michael through New York, they've found out about us through their trainer holborow.
[00:24:20] See, that happens a whole lot. So they'll be have the courses are one part of what we offer. And then we have an ongoing coaching group with fitness business, brick and mortar owners. So that really is what, Michael, I spent a lot of our time because we've worked pretty in-depth with those individuals. I do not judge the term mastermind. It's not it's what some people might call the half. That's not what we would call it. We prefer to think of it as a, you know, a twelve month retainer agreement for consulting. But, of course, it's a you know, that's been very satisfying because teaching is the last step of mastery. And the thing that has been such a gift is the opportunity to really force myself to articulate and test things that are working MLS and not only rely on would MF that is doing, but help individuals find the right solution for their market. And then, of course, the opportunity to teach both our clients and the Horn Society and create frameworks for the courses oftentimes inspires ideas for things. We could be doing better at Mark Fisher Fitness.
[00:25:16] Yeah, yeah. I always find that kind of having to teach somebody else. Claire. Your knowledge and actually gives you you learn the unknown knowns. Yeah, the thing is, is that, you know, that you don't realize, you know, and articulate that you like, hey, actually, I need to formalize that back and what I did.
[00:25:32] Totally. And it's such a joy to because, you know, we've now been in this I think the third year, the courses, which, of course, are moving online now like of things. And, you know, it's so great every time you think you just get like a you uncover a little bit more of this sculpture behind a rock, because every time you do it, you're getting questions. You're getting, like appropriately challenged about things. You're finding out what people really finding valuable. And that has been incredibly satisfying. I mean, I love teaching and I'm in addition to doing a lot of our long talks and I kind of keynote stop. These courses are fun marathon, because we'll go for like one, two days at a time. And it's such a joy multiple times throughout the day, at least the joy for me to like somebody ask a question and I say a thing. And then I'm like, actually, I need to write that down because we should be more like we'll get through slide and I'll tell them, like, all the thing really works well. And actually, I think we've got to keep doing this.
[00:26:22] Why did you stop? I did. Well, that's what it's good to do, as I say, not as I do. So let's talk a little bit about what's going on in the world right now. I guess I'm curious. I mean, everything's gonna shut down where the middle of going. Nineteen everyone shelter in place. And central businesses are only a central business that are opening. And even there, I think they're gonna be closing some of those at periods of time. But, you know, the world is at some level forever change, at least for the short term here. How do you sort of see businesses that have this kind of in-person brick and mortar kind of approach? How do you think this is going to play out in terms of recovery? And what are the what are the things that are kind of forever change or at least change for a good period of time here, that businesses, you know, service businesses that are that are dealing with this need to kind of keep in mind or might want to think about as they think about recovery, as they think about long term strategy, what are you're kind of what's your take on how this is going to play out?
[00:27:12] Yeah, I think it's it's going to be fast. I think there's really two pieces and both it's probably a little too early to know. I think for me, the biggest variable is what's going to happen with the macro economic environment. I am a believer that that stuff is often like the weather anyway, that nobody really ever quite knows what's what's going on, you know, like nobody knows what's going to happen. And that inherently means there's a lot of uncertainty because, you know, the worst case scenarios are really, really scary. It's probably not going to be depression level. I don't think just because, you know, you look historically depression, they kind of do everything wrong. And I think that I hope where we're going to have better tools and instruments that the governments can intervene to help soften some of that. But I think there's a very non zero risk that this is certainly going to be worse than anything I have seen in our lifetime. Right. But I think there's also a best case scenario, which is like bad, but not actually catastrophic. And I think those macro economic winds are going to really impact all businesses. And certainly they're going to impact Rick. And more service businesses, everything from events to restaurants to certainly fitness businesses, which again is my my lane saw almost you stand there. Now, as far as specifically the virus, the other bucket is what this is going to mean for shutdown strategies being turned on and off. Presumably, social distancing is going to remain a thing indefinitely. We're likely to see immunocompromised populations not wanting to go back. I think that's the thing that's going to be an incredible psychological challenge. Again, I want to be very clear here. I really believe we can weather all of this. My my optimism is infallible about the long term. And I think this is going to be ugly and challenging because I think we're gonna see this interesting psychological dilemma where people are going to want to go out.
[00:29:01] They're going to want to commune with other people if they haven't had the virus already. They're going to understandably be nervous about that. I think that's going to create a lot of psychological tension for a lot of us for it's really until the vaccine comes out specific. When you look at fitness businesses, it's going to be interesting in that I think people are already so starved to connect with other people in person. So, you know, that's an amazing positive thing. But then we think about the potential macro economic challenges that people are facing. If they're getting laid off, they're getting pay cuts. And then when you look at just logistically with social distancing means if you're in a market like New York City, we're all brick and mortars is so much a real estate game, it just comes down to profitability per square foot. Right. That's really the game here. And I'm not say it's not that way. Other places tube in New York City. It's on steroids right now. The fact of the matter is, if market your business has to go from a capacity of 15 people per class, down to seven people per class, that's going to be tough. Yeah. So I think anybody that has its listening that they have a brick and mortar, it doesn't necessarily mean fitness, but if it's about getting people in a certain space to do whatever the thing is, I think it's going to be winter for a while.
[00:30:11] I think the thing that obviously we're seeing that's going to, I think, stay with us and I think has opportunity be a really bright spot is this is accelerated the trend. Towards more, I think, inclusive and holistic, integrated service options that have a really strong online component. Now, what that looks like, I think, is going to be wildly different based on that business. And I'm certainly happy to have interest talk more about. I think, the different ways to play out for different businesses. But I think it's gonna look differently for different business, different fitness businesses. But we will all have to have some sort of online virtual component going forward, because even when they turn things back on, if you take that big hit to capacity, even if your revenues are even close to where they are, you're going to not be as probably you can't make as much money per square foot. And a lot of the people that you would like to be helping might not be able to go into your facility now. So you're going to need to continue to have ways to help those individuals.
[00:31:05] Yeah, it's fascinating. Any time in a market that kind of underlying cost structure changes so dramatically and like in this case, the your physical space now becomes horribly expensive because of the restrictions it has around it. It just changes the dynamics. I mean, I envision, you know, two a.m. classes because people are going to be like, well, I'm paying for this facility 24 hours a day. There's no reason I should only be doing classes, you know, from six and nine p.m. I'm going to start like that's going to be my thinking. I'm going to have also to pricing things that, you know, allow you to maybe it's a little cheaper to do it at two a.m., you know. You know, our cost structure is different. I mean, I just I'm fascinated to see how this plays out in terms of, you know, now that those dynamics are different, the different decisions and the innovation that happens. Yeah. I certainly think the online component of it is going to be key. And I love this idea of an integrated physical online. So it's I can still give you this value, but some of it's going to have to be in an online format because we can't use this physical asset nearly as much because of the cost basis for it.
[00:31:59] Oh, yeah, it'll be fascinating. Well, what we can do, we'll do a follow up episode in a couple of months towards the end of 2020 year and see how things are planned out, because I think it's you know, it's gonna be interesting. Obviously, fitness is going to be hugely impacted, just like every brick and mortar service business. But it's depending on how things play out, how, you know, what the timing is on some of those changes, the restrictions, it will be, you know, a big impact. But, yes, I agree. I'm I'm optimist long term. And, yes, everyone ought to be prepared for a lot of pain for the next twelve months. And it's gonna be it's gonna be pretty ugly, regardless of how the market has been. A pleasure. If people want to find out more about you, about MSF, about business for unicorns. What's the best way to get this information?
[00:32:37] Yes, they can go to Mark Fisher, fitness dot com or business for Unicorn's dot com. And that's the two websites. They can find out more about what you do and potentiates, laugh at strange images. And if they want to find me, I am active ish on Instagram. And that's at Mark Fisher human being. And if they want to chuckle at some really some hilarious pictures they should go to at M.F. at the clubhouse. So that's Mark Fisher finishes Instagram at em up at the clubhouse.
[00:33:04] Great. I will put your El's in the handles in the show notes here. I'll encourage everyone to take the blue pill. Go look at the videos. It's fun stuff. You can't unsee it. But it is it is interesting. Mark it has been a pleasure. Thanks for taking the time today, having this conversation. It's really been fun and hopefully valuable for our audience. I think it was a good insight into what's going on and what may him. So I appreciate that. My pleasure.
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