Scott Gerber, CEO & Co-Founder, The Community Company
Scott Gerber is CEO of The Community Company, an organization that builds and manages community-driven programs for media companies and global brands. He is the founder of YEC, an invitation-only organization comprised of the world’s most successful young entrepreneurs, and Forbes Councils, a collective of invitation-only organizations for elite executives. He is also sought-after speaker, the co-author of Superconnector and the author of Never Get a “Real” Job. Scott has been featured in the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, Bloomberg, Fortune, TIME, CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, Reuters, Mashable, BBC, NPR, Forbes, The Daily Beast, CBS News, US News & World Report, Fox News, Inc. and Entrepreneur, and has been honored by NASDAQ and the White House. Follow him on Twitter at @scottgerber.
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AUTOMATED EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:02] You're listening to the scaling up services podcast where we speak with entrepreneurs authors business experts and thought leaders to give you the knowledge and insights needed to scale your service based business faster and easier. And now here is your host Business Coach Bruce Eckfeldt. Welcome everyone I called on your host for the scaling up services podcast. Today we're speaking with Scott Gerber who is is a bunch of things so let me go through all about what Scott has done so as a business owner. He's CEO of the Community Company which is an organization focused on building community driven programs for media and global brands. He's founder of white you see young entrepreneurial Council. Right now I have an acronym right which is invitation only organization for young successful entrepreneurs. Also the Forbes councils which is an invitation only organization Perlina executives is a speaker. He's co-author of superconductors is author of Never get a real job and he's been featured in lots of different places. New York Times Wall Street Journal Washington Post Bloomberg I will put all of that in the show notes. It's quite impressive and getting a Twitter handle down here. Zayla you know Scott I think B I would like to start with just a little bit of history background. Tell us about yourself how you got to where you are today and how we can kind of dig into the topic and your content.
[00:01:22] So it is about 15 years ago I had started but first this is while I was in college and took a company from zero to making a lot of money while I was a college student too a year later promptly nearly bankrupting myself through a combination of dumb decisions egotism just the worst breed of bad decision making rubrics you could possibly imagine. You know when I diagnosed myself prior to my real job toting mother who was a 30 year stalwart of the Board of Education New York City telling me it was time to get a real job and stop you know doing all these other things. I thought to myself Well one how can I take this hard knocks. Lesson learned you know approach to life and throw it in the garbage to go work some remedial job. So you went introspective figured out what my biggest challenge was and then took the last 700 I hours left to my name and ultimately built my first services business called sisal it which I then went on to build other businesses thereafter. But the real moment that I think has stuck with me ever since was not that I diagnose that I spend too much or that I was trying to keep up with the Joneses or that I was you know do that. It was the fact that I didn't put a very smart inner circle around me. I didn't have a group of people that I could have actual meaningful and authentic conversations with that understood what I was trying to do that fundamentally understood my journey the path the business world and all those little nuances. And I think I was getting a lot of really bad advice not because people were mean you know uninformed or not well-intentioned but that they weren't the right people for what I was going through at that stage in my life and so I sort of made a promise to myself that I would never again allow for myself or any other young entrepreneur. At that time too to sort of feel alone to feel like they didn't have any community around them. Years later I would create YEC to really sort of fulfill that mission that promised to myself after my first successful business and then sort of took that model completely and with my partner Ryan who is also the co-author of the book really take that model of building community and now power some of the largest brands in the world that also builds communities using the same methodologies technologies and benefits. So you know my story is really about understanding fundamentally that your social capital is the only currency that matters doesn't matter what business is it doesn't matter what your skill set is. But I am and I think your audience will dig this. I mean you know I am not a technologist I am not an exponential scale entrepreneur in the sense of valuation over everything. I am very much a people driven company. With Coggs with real Khak you know that all the things that matter but we build customer for customer person at a time and we do it a way in which has scaled into a very large multimillion dollar business. But through methodical relationship building.
[00:04:02] And I think thats key. The thing about services business as it tends to be built around relationships whether until a relationship the customer as employees its people serving people so I think this is key. So one there I really loved about your book or concept that came out from the book that I really loved was the difference between networking and connecting the other. Tell me a little bit about that because I think thats a really key and important distinction.
[00:04:23] Well its not semantics. I think a lot of people that write books try to like you know put some key terms in so that they can have a headline click bait type thing. This to me is an actual difference of lens and perspective. So I can I can make this so clear so simple to your audience so Bruce told me the last time you had an amazing experience with a networker and he a networker.
[00:04:44] Yeah. And there you go. I read that you answered the question right. Right.
[00:04:47] Its this idea that a networker by definition is sort of this methodical person thats out for personal gain thats treating people like quotas and numbers. Thats thinking transactional relationship very very short term thinking and you know its the stereotypical business card conference kind of guy that you want to avoid like the plague.
[00:05:07] I'm chuckling because I think I think I have three or four LinkedIn messages right now from network.
[00:05:15] And they are very non self-aware people that think that this is the way to do it because that's the way they were taught and they were by others and so on its overt connectors think very differently. They're emotionally intelligent they're empathetic.
[00:05:25] They are thinking about value creation for others through community building first and foremost not personal gain. They're much more long term. I don't think transactionally and they believe really in the power of what a community around yourself can deliver for all parties including themselves concerned.
[00:05:41] It doesn't mean they don't want to make money it doesn't mean they don't want to have profit but they do it in a truly and I say authentic even though that's become the new T-shirt as well. But they do it in an actually authentic way. They are human first.
[00:05:53] They very much understand the power relation building they don't aim to cheat the relationships that they are building. And so I think that just the difference of perspective is you know if you are someone who is looking to really look at the long term as a lifetime in a business that you're looking to build that you're not trying to flip something that you're not trying to you know just get some quick wins.
[00:06:13] Then the idea of being a connectors much smarter because again especially in business like the service industry you know the only difference who you and the next guy is the handshake that you have with the person across the table from you in all cases. And so you know it's the idea of saying like you know hey let's skip all those years of relationship and those coffee meetings and me talking about my wife to you and me doing all these things for you and you do it for me. Let's skip all that just get to the Punchline. Who wants to do that. That's crazy.
[00:06:40] And so that's the key difference not transactional long term habitually generous givers as are some of these things innate skills or are ideas that are innate kind of characteristics or are they skills that you develop both.
[00:06:54] I think that there is this fallacy along with a number of other myths that the actor has some innate skill that it's all for Taipei extroverts that you know that that's that's the key.
[00:07:05] The reason Ryan wrote the book the way we did is because I am as you could probably tell already a very much a extrovert you know throw me any room kind of guy. My partner is an extreme opposite. He is a hardcore introvert. And I would argue that you know through working with Ryan for now nearly a decade as well as other introverts that we know in connectors we talk to in the book.
[00:07:24] Introverts actually many times are actually better connectors than extroverts because they're perceived weaknesses are actually utilize as strengths in the way that they reposition to make sure they're always putting their best foot forward in environments they're comfortable in.
[00:07:38] So no they're not going to walk into a 5000 person conference but instead they're going to go and figure out the researcher are the 10 people that are going to that conference that I can invite to a private Oasis or host a private dinner or a private function and have more meaningful conversations with the 10 people that actually matter rather than the ten thousand that are at the tradeshow.
[00:07:56] So you know it's I think this is a very learnable skill set but what I will say is this I think the problem in today's society is that we are looking for the five minute apps right. And so it's Goldrich that shaking you're going to be healthy and people are not willing to put the work gain of understanding that relationships don't just materialize overnight. You wouldn't marry your husband or wife after one day. In most cases right so why should this person go into business with. Why should a person writing you a hundred thousand dollar check or putting 10 percent of their company's revenue through your process as a vendor on the line because you said you're good at what you do. You know that's the kind of stuff that I think people are taking for granted today because of things like social media where there is such instant and ongoing communicating every format. People assume that they are connected when in reality they're farther from connected than ever before.
[00:08:43] So what makes the meaningful connection. So if we're talking about rebuilding and maybe in the question around that too is how many connections are we looking for. Is there a sweet spot in targeting a certain amount and then what are the nature of those connections.
[00:08:59] So I like to think of it as you know first and foremost who's actually in your inner circle. Who are the people that are going to grow up with together that could be five or 10 people that you always going to have in your life that you trust and again these don't have to be. I want to advise people to stop thinking like the Richard Branson effect.
[00:09:14] Right it's like I just need to be mentored by Richard Branson and the rest of on the fly strike. It's nonsense. The best people in my life have historically been people like you know lawyers and accountants like it sounds so boring but you know what sometimes boring is a good thing. You know anybody in your life should be telling you you don't go climb Everest and you know look to parachute off of it for a while. And so but but it's people in my life that I have like in my world. I have someone who is by all definitions like when entrepreneurs entrepreneur you know build a multibillion dollar businesses multiple times over. And I also have somebody who I've known since college that you know what he's a restaurant or and he's a grinder a hustler. You know street smart guy.
[00:09:52] But having those perspectives is helping me to educate my own mindset and also to be able to be more worldly in my thinking why I say there's no magic number I mean there's all kinds of studies like Dunbar's number and the average the people you hang out with and all those things and those are all materially beneficial.
[00:10:08] But the reality is is that when you are deep in not wide with a core group of people then those inner circles have individuals who also have inner circles. And so over time you're able to have more all levels of access. But it's because you've gone so deep with people that have such trust in you that they become your super connectors your advocates your anchors as we call them to help you build into these other communities. And so rather than trying to go and meet a hundred people and make these people your best friends I like to say that some people might be in season one as as a strong leading man or woman in Season 3 either a recurring character. Right. You're always going to have your inner circle ever present ongoing in your life because you want to always ensure that you directional at all that all sort of have the right approach. So there is no magic formula here.
[00:10:54] It's what worked best for you. But I think it's it's if you feel you're stretched too thin and your success is becoming secondary to relationship building then that's not good either. I think you have to find that balance.
[00:11:05] What I'm curious what factors you would suggest looking at. I'm curious what things you kind of do in terms of a self-assessment saying look this is who I am. These are my strengths and weaknesses. What should I be bringing into my inner circle relative to that. And then also kind of depending on what my goals are ambitions current trajectory is how that might impact inner circle I don't know if you have thoughts or suggestions on how someone would strategizing who who to connect with or who to bring into that.
[00:11:34] I think that at the end of the day you have to look very much at your personal journey to determine what's best.
[00:11:40] And also look at your strengths and weaknesses right. You can't have just a lot of people that are exactly like you. You want to have a contrarian viewpoint you want to have people that are going to question your core beliefs not because you're necessarily going to change your viewpoint but you should be able to speak for you should be able to see things in a different way.
[00:11:57] I would argue that a lot of my friends are hardcore tech entrepreneur. Right. And I am very much against building businesses that I can't see a path to cash. And it's not because I don't think there are times and places to have technology businesses that are sort of building for a different kind of outcome. But you're talking about what is the risk tolerance of a business and I argue that most entrepreneurs don't have the stomach or the resources for what it takes to figure out the revenue equation later. But you need somebody sometimes with that perspective tell the guy who's worried about the cash right. This is why you're not growing effectively. This is maybe how your user strategy is not working you know how do you think about becoming a revenue multiple businesses and even multiple business so that when the time comes for exit you're thinking about both perspectives to maximize your outcomes. That's not a bad conversation or bad people to have. So I think the questions you want to start figuring out is who are the groups that you most associate with first and foremost are those groups indicative of your personal journey and if you want.
[00:12:56] Are you putting yourself in an old school Chamber of Commerce that maybe you know what it's approach people who are just so misaligned with the way you think acting and want to run your business. That doesn't make sense. Can you realize that time and mindset along with you know the new cool tech group that you could start to meet people that might think differently even though youre a bit different than their core business. I think those are some of the things you want to figure out but at the end of the day it should be groups of people who challenge you who are equally as ambitious as you who have different perspectives but you agree on a core thesis like you care about something equally like in the case of white.
[00:13:29] When we started it we have entrepreneurs from all over the spectrum but they all believe that the fundamental principle of youth entrepreneurship is a viable career path is somebody they wanted to tout from the mountaintops as a collective to the next generation Hotspurs thats what binds us together. But that idea is is that later on they can have conversations about all other kinds of things but they add a common bond to start.
[00:13:50] Those are some of the key insights I would say are important to you have to audit yourself to determine what youre looking for out of success to have a lens of who ultimately are the right people that are going to see that journey. Similarly to be on the right path together as a collective.
[00:14:04] Isn't that kind of idea.
[00:14:06] We want a common set of values but diversity of opinions and perspectives and experiences and bringing that to the table. So we talk a lot about sort of the individual. I think one of the other ideas that I liked that you brought up was this idea that a brand or that a business should have that same kind of community the same kind of set of connections. Talk to me about the difference between as an individual how you do that versus as a company how you do that.
[00:14:31] Sure I mean at the end of the day look you know I think that we've we've sort of bought this idea hook line and sinker that the Facebook the Twitters the Linkins that that is our Kuroko community right. And the reality is those are serious vanity metrics playing a game so that people can have your attention or customers attention to sell advertising. That's what those platforms exist to do.
[00:14:50] They provide a purpose to you but that's what they exist to do and I think as you're seeing a lot of these algorithms change away from the historic you know brand content being out there more publicly and organically to now more human first message it's very important that brands take a look at what their core ethos actually is to convene people not just assume that there's likes and tweets and shares on a platform. So I think it's very important that you really think as a brand what we stand for Q2 I mean something to him how can I create a community around that idea. So example let's say you're a local restaurant business. OK. You know you're not going to necessarily convene foodies. You're not going to convene people who love food but you might say OK well I'm an Applebee's esque type diner that's really about neighborhood local. Being part of the community. What if I created a media site to have all of the local sports coaches be able to contribute content. You know talking about you know the athletics of the area then make it so that my restaurant becomes the official meeting place for after games or for during the drafting seasons or hold up in case you know you're becoming a part of the community you're taking stakeholders and giving them the right level of bean and connectivity to allow them to create value for others but they're also using the core assets at their disposal and what they are about their core either. So I think when you think like a connector lens you have to say to yourself how can you be habitually generous but how could you also had the lens of what you care about and what you want to espouse as a brand be ever prevalent and sometimes that's obvious sometimes it takes some time.
[00:16:20] You know again like some people might say if we're talking about service based businesses you know Klonsky lawn care company or landscaping people like a landscaping company what the hell do I want to. What do we need a community around landscaping. Well you know what I would argue that your top clients in many places are thinking things like how do they ensure this spring grass is not going to look like you know horrible how to work build an exterior that's going to really make my house stand out. You know an Instagram community of people that your brand brings together of the top lawn care environments that have been created to have conversation around. You know what. The way they went about doing X Y Z or what tips and tricks they use to ensure that their property looks spectacular you know is not a bad thing for you to be the convener of the facilitator of some basic areas that you can play a role doing a mini event as stupid as it sounds in some cases like in your local community. Know these kinds of things they take work. But if you're consistent if you are convening great people that care about something that they want to be convened around if you are become known for that and if you're not frankly giving a sales pitch every five minutes because it's crucial it is it cannot be like Hey let me tell you all about me. This is all about them. And when they see what you're doing it comes back to you. That's the key to building a smart community program for your business.
[00:17:34] And I think one of the things that I've seen work really well is when you find those topics those subjects that have a strong affinity for like the lawn care like you know something about the environment and the use of pesticides in different ways like if you can tap any of those threads in those bands of topics that people that youre trying to build community with are talking about and you can be a facilitator for that. But those being really really effective.
[00:17:57] Absolutely I think that look the reality today is is that it is easier than ever for anybody big small big companies small company individual freelancer to to basically become a publisher.
[00:18:08] And so if you can ultimately co-lead those conversations by convening the right kind of stakeholders that want to be engaging and talking whether publicly or privately through these forums or exchanges of of you know in person or online.
[00:18:22] I think that there is a major role to play when you are seen as sort of the center of the sphere of influence that is bringing together this value add community where people get it wrong as they try to turn it into a marketing channel and a platform for direct selling. This is where you get more of a MLM style yukky feeling and people just run for the rafters so I think its very very important that you again. It's just it's something you care about. But it shouldn't be like a scene where you spend on an advertising type thing you shouldn't expect. Like my Arnwine this will be X dollars to X cents based on X topline.
[00:18:54] You can't think like that with these types of communities and how do you think about it. And so you build a community. How do you engage people in more of a brand.
[00:19:05] Product Service discussion. When do you do that. How do you do that. Have you seen The Jerk.
[00:19:10] I'll give you a perfect story that I think sums up really well in the book we talk about a gentleman named Derrick Koeberg who's a waltz manager. You want to talk about service businesses.
[00:19:18] Financial adviser all of and what he said was you know to me he's like look Scott most people in the United States that are wealth managers have your low single digit referral businesses and only the creme de la creme have you know 10 plus percent whatnot. He was banking 30 plus percent referrals year over year. And he did it very methodically and very simply. But did it again with the connector lens. This is the exact thing he did. He looked at his consumer base and he's like look you know I could make this about money I can make this about investment strategies or whatever but I'm going to do an event. I want it to be something meaningful to the people she didn't initially took the business side of it he threw it in the river and he's like What do all these people really care about what kind of experience can I deliver. That is just something that fits all the points. And so we came up with. Why now. Not just anyone but like the most expensive most exclusive kinds of wine in the world. And he went to his customers he made this a customer appreciation event and this was the rule. He said look you're allowed to bring a plus one. It could be anybody you want but they must have a high appreciation for this kind of wine because the event is shortly around this kind of one. Now what he basically did was put criteria on the room for a certain kind of individual that likely is is you know make you a certain kind of muddy high correlation to tarka. Exactly right. Now in addition to that he also put himself in an environment where the plus one is likely going to be somebody who is number one that we just had a target potential client number two is likely going to be someone where the refer is going to want to show off being like look at this event I'm bringing you two for this opportunity. Number three before people even enter the room you know that the conversation between or for the referee is what's this event.
[00:21:02] Who's doing it. Why did they do it. What's he about. Good guy. And some comments like that might come out of it which is like well my financial adviser doesn't do this for me. Right now all of a sudden you've got all these people talking about some of the Allcare passion about total human first conversation. And naturally what's going to happen at some point the referrer is going to come up with his referrer or her periphery to Derek and say Derek to introduce you to John. John does x y z. John's going to say hey nice to meet you. Thanks so much for this event. You know I hear great things would love to learn more. And now the pitch is natural. Yeah I guess the way that I would explain to your audience is simply put away is profit is not a bad thing the way you go about finding profit and achieving profit.
[00:21:44] That is the bad thing. I think what people have to do is reverse engineer their success by looking at the bigger picture of its people first what can you show to people do for people that really gets them to get a sense of you as a person rather than a pitchman product hype person that the world is full of. So if you can create an environment online off line whatever it is that means you stand for something more than what you do but your humanity shines through and people speak for what you do.
[00:22:15] That ultimately is the value that can be created from building a smart community.
[00:22:19] I like that. It's kind of that people do business with people they know like and trust and so this really sort of sets the stage for that allows that to happen and then the ones that are ready and interested and willing will naturally gravitate over towards a sales conversation. I don't have to force it you just kind of create fiction Brown for it to happen. Correct.
[00:22:39] So a couple of questions in terms of actually implementing this. What are some of the things that you typically see people kind of get wrong or what are the better ways. Give us some more tips tricks strategies on how we actually go about doing this.
[00:22:53] Well first and foremost I think it's important. You have to be incredibly selective. The only asset that every person has equally doesn't matter how rich poor powerful Lakdar you have is your time. And so one of my earliest mentors said to me and I think I said a little earlier in the podcast is you know real relationships take real time and you can't cheat real time. I've since amended and added to say your goal should be to cheat your time in order to build in more relationship time. And so you can hack your time by doing things smarter like saying no more often. Right. Everybody that I know is a lot of them are the first thing they want to do is say yes you know e-mail is the only thing where someone you've never met can give you a homework assignment you know to be like. And so the reality is you've got to be incredibly methodical around your time. And you know what that doesn't mean you're going to be everybody's best friend. It doesn't mean everybody is going to be happy with the decisions you make. But I get more e-mails in a given week of hey I'd love to see you. Hey I'd love to go for a cup of coffee. Oh hey I'd love to partner with you things that are just like to talk about what to do what. What do you want. You know just because I want to help them make a smarter ask. But more times than not it's usually just Hey I just want to hang out and that's cool if I'm in that mode.
[00:24:03] But if it's a business thing you know you've got to be specific in order to get on the counter. The second thing is you know looking at ways in which you can turn yourself into from a priority level to prioritize your success first but build in daily rituals that you can do to build in that habitual generosity.
[00:24:22] The book there's a gentleman named Adam Rifkin who came up with what we call five minute favors where he figures out everyday how we can help one 2 people in five minutes that might have exponential impact on what they're working on so that he can have this ongoing serendipity effect with people but make it manageable on his time to ensure that the value doesn't overtake him.
[00:24:41] You know others there's a great book I would recommend you know besides ours.
[00:24:46] Those years is a great book that Adam Grant if you're familiar with Roco given take ahead he has very smart thesis which is you know if you look at this pyramid of success who are the most successful least successful people in his pyramid givers are both on the top and the bottom of the pyramid. And the reason is because those at the top prioritize their own success to productivity smarter intuition around who they should invest their time into. And the bottom were just given without a cause like I just want to give give give give give so look like a good person or to you know feel like I'm connecting people and that's you can't so that's the first thing productivity overall success has to be your main focus in your own life because no one wants to connect unsuccess person.
[00:25:27] And so that's one second is to get rid of a lot of the preconceptions around who you should be connecting with. I think again there is this stigma that people you know like I said earlier with Richard Branson.
[00:25:38] People assume it's always whoever the CEO the president the leader of the company like I will tell you right now that the chances of getting me a cold e-mail today Anna was and I'm only a business that's you know you know many millions but not like hundreds of millions of dollars. I could tell you right now Colby knows get nowhere with me. But if you come in through someone that you've built trust with on my team in my family you know things like that you're probably going to have a better chance of of pulling my attention. And so I think we have to look at the actual influence that people have versus the perceived influence people have on the decision makers or individuals that ultimately will matter to your overall community.
[00:26:15] Because I'll tell you right now I think more times than not going through a business development person rather than CEO for a business deal is going to be more likely successful or the assistant BTD or the assistant to the vidi. So that's that's number two. Number three I would say you know building an oasis strategy.
[00:26:33] We talk a lot about this a lot in the book I sort of mentioned earlier that my partner and I are diametrically opposed you know from a extrovert introvert perspective.
[00:26:41] And you know what we've learned together though is that people all want the same thing when they go to large scale events they want to build relationships but whether you're again the Taipei or the introvert they can be incredibly overwhelming incredibly unfulfilling very difficult to actually figure out who makes sense to me why they make sense to me. And so anything that you can do to play curator and convener of off site or online experiences that are hyper curated that people you're going to bring in will see the value not necessarily just you being involved but of the others that you are curating that is incredibly valuable. And I think something that people you know are so inundated with thinking they've got to be a part of the traditional real estate of like. I go to a conference to go to the conference. They don't think about what if I could pull the 10 15 people out of that conference that truly should know one another and I should know and make it the most experiential thing they've ever seen in their lives because of the engagement and level of curation conversation you can achieve.
[00:27:35] So I think to some that don't play by other people's real estate you know just because Facebook or LinkedIn says do this because that's the game. Does that mean I should just do a Facebook group versus poster like story. Just because a conference says come watch 50 speakers listen to some brands talk in and go to the drinks and cocktail or does it mean you should do a private exterior event doing research for three weeks prior.
[00:27:57] Everybody that you want to meet bring them all together for one really amazing evening going all in on and meeting and this special opportunity for all. You just got to have a different lens on how the world works and how to use the world to the advantage of a connector versus that of the network or sheet that everybody else is sort of doing day in and day out.
[00:28:16] Yeah. No and I like that idea focus and it really can create a definition of your target. Who do you really want to speak to who is really going to be who can really impact you can who can really impact you create a really kind of structured focused experience around that and use that rather than trying to build thousands of people and you're following very powerful God.
[00:28:37] So I think it's so much it's been a pleasure speaking. Thanks for being on the podcast. People would like to learn more about you and the company like E.S. like setar. What's the best way to contact them.
[00:28:45] Sure you can follow me on Twitter at Scott Gerber. Check out the book by anywhere books are sold or go to super connector book dot com. And for community Co and all things the community company. Just go to community CEO and you can learn more about what we do every day.
[00:28:59] Awesome. And Scott I'll put all of your information on the show notes here below the video and on the podcast.
[00:29:05] Again thank you so much thanking her for joining us. If you liked the episode like unsubscribe give us a review and send us some feedback. You can send feedback to feedback at scaling up services dot com. We'd love to get notes we'd love to get ideas suggestions for you.
[00:29:20] Yes and thanks Scott. Thanks again. It's been a pleasure. Thank you.